Rising Thunder [PC]

Discussion in 'Other Fighting Games' started by Spencer, Jul 20, 2015.

  1. Krackatoa

    Krackatoa Painwizard

    Location:
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    Painwheel
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    I really do not like being able to jump cancel DPs, though. If anyone wanted my opinion. I think it should take 100 Kinect Bar at the minimum.
     
  2. Sotherius

    Sotherius Pure Platinum!

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    I don't know, I mean, yeah, since we are used to see the enemy meter all the time, it gets strange, since you don't know when the oponent can do a cancel or a breaker (those are the 2 uses for the meter right?), i think is the only that we really need to see.

    The enemy skills, i think is neat not being able to see them, mainly because this game will have a focus on custom builds, and the other thing is, to learn the matchup, you will need to learn the enemy cooldowns, and this is part of the strategic mindset that this game is borrowing from other styles. =P (wow, he can't DP now, so is a good time for a jump in)
     
  3. Grangach

    Grangach MUSCLE POWER

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    Seeing your opponents resources is in line with their core philosophy of ease of use.
     
  4. Covenant

    Covenant HE WHO IS CAT (Dravidian)

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    I don't believe it does at all. It affects the strategies you should use (and clears up screen space), but the game doesnt become easier to play. Hiding an enemies resources just means you need a feel of what they should be able to do and how fast they build meter. That takes what, a few minutes in training as a character? All of two matches? I mean if it's well into the round and they're not using a lot of EX moves......they have super. lol

    Now there's nothing wrong with showing or hiding certain information as they both have their pro's and cons, but it's a matter of how the creator wants players to approach the game. That said, how player's want to play should at least be considered, though preferably well after the alpha phase where you can tell if the decisions you made actually made the game bad.
     
  5. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

    Location:
    NW OR / Boise ID
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    Filia
    Eliza
    This game's fucking input. I was planning on using my program that generates keyboard inputs from gamepad/fightstick buttons, but that doesn't even work! They appear to get low level keyboard input so that you can map left and right shift/ctrl/alt to different things. The only controller option at the moment really is xbox controllers.

    It's not browser based AT ALL??
     
  6. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
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    sorry i was being dumb. I jumped onto the website and was like oh so this is where you play it. :I

    i now realize how fucking stupid I sound... as I download the alpha as we speak. :S
     
  7. ClarenceMage

    ClarenceMage git gud

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    You're right, it is unfair (and short sighted) for me to judge it based on 45 mins of training mode with no actual gameplay vs no-one who knows how to play. However, I can sortof make an educated guess based on how similar each characters normals are, that the minute spacing footsies game isn't going to be as diverse as other fighting games.


    Well the problem is that imo SF4 is a poor example of an SF game that sacrifices a lot of what made SF unique and good in previous games. There are better SF games to draw inspiration from. However, with some playing online vs non bad connections the game feels much better to play than I thought it would - it's pretty responsive, not very clunky, and I can play in ways that make fighting game sense. However, I've only played Chel online so far because she seems to have functional shoto neutral.

    Side note, I learned that kinetic deflect is metered burst, which is like... the obvious choice between having FADC/jump cancels and having BURST for the same resource is pretty obvious. The game's direction is not clear right now to me but I need to play it more to learn more about what they're thinking with the game design.
     
  8. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

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    MikeZWasTaken
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    No they aren't. RCs do not require you to dash or jump, they just return you to neutral, and they can be done in the air or during otherwise-uncancellable parts of moves. They're FADCs without the (pointless) FA requirement.

    QFT because they are also not baitable and you can burst throws.
     
  9. Grangach

    Grangach MUSCLE POWER

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    kinetic advance gives you way better pressure and safe neutral, plus when you use it it makes your specials recover faster. Imo combos are too short for bursts to matter.
     
  10. Krackatoa

    Krackatoa Painwizard

    Location:
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    From my time playing, it is possible for the Burst to whiff (I've had it happen a few times now as the attacker), but I really don't think baiting is very practical at all.
     
  11. Raptor1138

    Raptor1138 The Ambitious Fool

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    OK, I'm in.

    This is a kind of fighting game that should always exist: execution is as trivial as the next Arkham game, so the strategy of the game is deep and immediate. I'm not trying to bash fighters with difficult execution, just saying that games like Rising Thunder should exist, where anybody can pick it up and play it without having to learn how to do a shoryuken first. I think I'll put some work into this game.

    Also Chel is my waifu.
     
  12. Wenzel

    Wenzel I like parry

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    your waifu is top tier.

    EDIT: this game is racist because doesn´t reconosing my Hori RAPV4 Silent.....not JP sticks allowed damn!

    Uninstall lol
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2015
  13. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

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    Correction: Easy execution has nothing to do with deep strategy. Immediate, yes.

    Requiring the opponent to touch you again in order to kill you always matters as long as combos are 2 hits or higher. You can also burst throws before they deal damage.
     
    TheCrankMachine and Spencer like this.
  14. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

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    Hey guys, I've got some Iron Tag- I mean some basic Talos resets baby.



    oh wait should we make a separate combo thread for this? :S


    Edit: Oh wait never mind these resets are shit thanks to invincible back dashing. GOLLY GEE WILLIKERS, THANKS ME. stupid stupid.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
  15. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

    Location:
    NW OR / Boise ID
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    My first impressions:
    • The game is FUN.
    • I would be having a lot more fun if I could play using my fightstick.
    • It's definitely easy to pick up. I've been able to get straight to the mind games without that barrier of combos I can't do.
    • I like that I'm getting rage quits already.
     
    Grangach likes this.
  16. TheGamaniac

    TheGamaniac Well-Known Member

    Unknown
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Things I've learned while playing this:
    • Throw tech is, at the time of writing this, not invincible. If their DP is cooling up, Crow gets seemingly-free damage from a throw attempt that can combo into cr.M, and thus into the slam special I forget the name of.
    • Kinetic Deflect can also be used as an alpha counter, if you activate it right before another hit lands during blockstun. I find it quite useful on a more zoning-oriented Crow, when I remember to use it.
    • Just for fun: Crow's disc actually hits the opponent OTG if thrown after the final hit. Sometimes i'm getting a second death cry, too!
    • DKOs are SF4 style... If one person has 1 win and the other doesn't, the first guy wins. At least, it seemed to be like that. I'd need to encounter another instance to be sure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
  17. herbvijkl

    herbvijkl Active Member

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    so uh. how do I burst?
     
  18. TheGamaniac

    TheGamaniac Well-Known Member

    Unknown
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    Fukua
    Hit 2 special buttons at the same time. Kinda says it right on the How To Play screen...
     
  19. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

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    NW OR / Boise ID
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    And you have to have set Kinetic to deflect.
     
  20. Daemyx

    Daemyx Farofa Master

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    This is pure gold.

     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
  21. Grunt

    Grunt Burglar

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    tnurG
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    My favorite part is when he uninstalls it and just starts playing WoW without ever stopping.
     
    Daemyx likes this.
  22. North888

    North888 Doesn't know what he's talking about

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    But Chel's just a Shoto... :/ And a really basic one.

    This guy needs to learn to block sweeps
     
  23. Daemyx

    Daemyx Farofa Master

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    Fireballs and DPs, 20+ years of exposing scrubs.
     
    North888, Fumako and Covenant like this.
  24. Uzumakihero

    Uzumakihero still can't get to Framingham

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    Thanks to you @Krackatoa I've been using the c.L into spinny arms. I've finally been able to blow up Talos' step kick
     
    Krackatoa likes this.
  25. herbvijkl

    herbvijkl Active Member

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    at least someone has. step kick is blowing people up online rn lmao
     
    Uzumakihero likes this.
  26. tekkaxe

    tekkaxe Member

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    Disclaimer: Everything below could be simply due to the fact that I chose to main Crow. And the fact that it's day 1. Of a fighting game that's still in alpha. And while it might not seem like it, I had a ton of fun playing so far. Crow is a really fun (yet slightly frustrating) character.

    I posted this on the RT forums, but cross-posting here for discussion's sake.
    Anyway, here are my impressions after like, 3-4 hours of ranked matches and hitting silver.
    --------
    What's awesome:
    -The designs rock. Especially crow.
    -The animations are quite nice.
    -Single hit damage is awesome. Stuff hurts.
    -There is something good here, though it needs some working

    Regarding comboing and general game feel:
    -The game wants the pace and short-combos of a streetfighter 2 or 4 (and tries to do so via arbitrary limitations on canceling+juggling, and SEVERE damage scaling)... but then rather than removing the ability to do long combos, it puts them behind the same execution barrier that it purports to be eradicating: FADC-styled kinetic attacks, lack of chaining, handling juggling in a complicated manner... RisingThunder claims to want to put strategy at the forefront, but getting rid of QCFs is only a partial job. Extra 100s of damage are hidden behind convoluted things like height-restricted, juggle-point rationing combos.

    It's like, RT wants to look hype, but then doesn't want to simplify the system enough that doing hype stuff isn't a chore.

    If RT really wanted things accessible, yet constricted/simple: drop that stuff, give me useful normals, and build the game around simple hits into specials, and knockdowns.

    If RT wants things to be freeform: chains for all normals, normal canceling as a standard, no invincibility after hitting a launched opponent, actual juggle state, cancel dash attacks into normals....

    As it is, it's an unsure, fence-straddling, slightly dissatisfying mixture.

    -Crossups are really good, walk speeds are slow, and normals aren't that good. The end result is that the game feels like it wants to be super-footsies based, but because of how normals are, folks realize that their best bet is to jump: so at anti-air normals/specials are put to good use. Oh, and what's the point of light attacks?: Cant combo off of them, can't link after them, do no damage, have no range... Why would I ever press that button?

    -As fun as he is, Crow's buttons suck. His standing M and H are cool anti-airs, but that's all he's got. And thanks to the combo system, as well as the inability to cancel my dash into an attack, I basically have to jump like a madman (go for that crossup) or play footsies with normals I'm not allowed to do anything off of (back/far H hits like a truck, but it can't even be dash-cancelled; You can do close M into far M, but unless you dash cancel all you get is the right distance for a jump-in/crossup; you get nothing off of crouching L, M (basically the same thing), or H except maybe a jump cancel? And you cant even special cancel them on hit from what I remember). I understand that a lot of his game revolves around the projectile setup and invisibility shenanigans, but speaking strictly of his buttons in the neutral game, he comes up short.

    -Moving during the superflash: This creates all sorts of weird problems, unless RT is just trying to be different from other fighting games for the sake of being different. Example: I did an unsafe super, dude jumped it, tried to punish me during my recovery using his own super, but I recovered DURING his superflash (because I can still move and my animations still resolve), so was able to jump it and kill him. Shouldn't have happened, but it did.

    -For a game that's supposed to be about ease of use, why are even basic combos hidden behind kinetic attack? Crow basically cant do anything without Kinetic Attack (M>Disc Toss>FADC>Close-H>FlippitySlash), or landing a close-Heavy. And the best way to land H? Jump-in. Jumpin' all day.

    -Why isn't normals cancelling into specials a standard thing?

    -autocorrected one button DP punishes are annoying as heck.

    -Feels like there are a lot of moves with invincible startup. Sucks when we aren't talkin' DPs

    -Why give me a juggle counter, but not a juggle-state? It wouldn't be as annoying if combos weren't already so restrictive. It's basically a SF4/Alpha-ish juggle system. Once again, if the goal is ease-of use, then why a limitation like this?

    -screen tracking/shake is a bit too much. Screws up juggles/jump-loops because its hard to know how far the ground is when the screen tracking/shake are so fierce.

    -close/far normals? why? I thought we were trying to simplify things?

    -Why are you allowed to burst/kinetic defense when you're dizzy? You should just eat the combo at that point. Totally lame.

    -Why can't I see my opponent's kinetic defense/attack bars?
     
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  27. Covenant

    Covenant HE WHO IS CAT (Dravidian)

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    It was funny at first.....then it just got sad. I couldn't watch all of it.
     
  28. herbvijkl

    herbvijkl Active Member

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    my least favorite thing is that my throw super doesn't ever beat other supers :(
     
  29. Skullmageddon

    Skullmageddon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I gotcha, I was just saying that the decision making behind the design of the game isn't completely arbitrary. Some people don't like SF4, some people do. If some dude wants to make a game that takes key elements from how a particular game works, then that's his prerogative. Doesn't mean you have to like it :P

    Burst does seem like a fairly strong choice, but I think kinetic advance is simply more fun to use. I just like extending combos.

    I feel like there's a misunderstanding behind a major aspect of the design philosophy that drives this game, or perhaps it's just me...

    From what I understand, they want to invite and retain new players into the genre. The supposed problem is that new players aren't willing to move past the early hurdles of learning a fighting game. They play for a handful of hours, then stop because they "can't figure out how to do a QCF motion", or don't even understand the concept behind doing such motions. We're talking about people who aren't willing to take the time to learn how to do the necessary moves, let alone take the time to actually learn how to play the game.

    Removing complex motions for special inputs and allocating every action to a single button helps simplify things for new players. They don't have to worry about whether or not they can properly input a DP, they can just hit the DP button when they know they want that particular move to come out.

    This, however, doesn't mean that the more in depth aspects of the game need to be simplified. It's still a fighting game down to its core. I don't think that removing difficult links or tough combos is the intent behind the game, as that wouldn't really make any sense. The idea is to make the game simple to play, allowing new players to get past that first hurdle of learning a fighting game by not requiring them to practice difficult inputs. This gives these new players more time to simply play the game, and hopefully that will encourage them to stick around with the game and try other fighting games as well.
     
  30. Maddie

    Maddie A temporary truce Off-Topic Mod

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    So what I take from this video is Chel can zone

    well thank you sir because I was curious as to what her playstyle was
     
  31. Daemyx

    Daemyx Farofa Master

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    You should have seen the twitter shit-show that followed.
    I really though that scrubs like that only existed in legend until today.
     
    Covenant likes this.
  32. Grunt

    Grunt Burglar

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    "Look at scorpion in MKX. His low demon can dodge fireballs. He was allowed in tournaments because no one knew it."
    -That guy
     
  33. tekkaxe

    tekkaxe Member

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    It sorta depends on how you interpret their objective, as both readings might be true.

    My understanding is that they want to make the depth accessible to all players, and want to do so by getting rid of complexity. Removing QCF and DP motions is only one part of that though: links? juggle points? That's not depth, it's complexity.

    Let's say we've got two players that want to do move B after they do move A, but only one of them can actually do it thanks to spending X hours learning height-restricted juggle-point-based combos. The depth wouldn't be negatively affected by having a juggle system that wasn't alpha/USF-ish. If their goal was making the depth more accessible, imagine how many more people would have access to "do combo #1 and get damage, do combo #2 and have reset opportunities or do combo #3 for positioning" if they really took their objective to heart beyond directional inputs?

    As it is, both players go for move B, but one player doesn't get it: not because of not knowing it was possible, but because they didn't put a grip of hours into figuring a complex system. They do the move, the animation looks like it hits, but the character flips out and gets invincible. Because reasons.


    And that's the thing: so they get rid of QCFs and DPs, and 360s and all that stuff... But then they got proximity normals, and I have to basically FADC just to chain my medium attack into my heavy attack? That's not adding depth. That's making things needlessly complicated, IMO. In both cases, alls I wanna do is chain my medium into my heavy.

    They've got a blank slate to invite newbies in and old-timers back into the fold and rather than make it like any of a number of more accessible-but-deep fighters: blaz-blue, melty, tekken, rumble pack, skullgirls... they fashion it after street fighter >_>
     
  34. Mike_Z

    Mike_Z Defender of the Night Lab Zero

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    (emphasis mine)

    A difficult link is a difficult input!
    Not only that, it is MORE difficult than the most difficult of the standard special move motions, since a link can come down to having frame-perfect (or even 5-frame-perfect, which is hard for normal people!) timing whereas special move motions give you leniency in the tens or even twenties of frames, allow slop, etc etc. A special move motion is easier to master, and applies across more situations once you learn it, than a single difficult link for a single character. Sure, not requiring HCB-F or even QCB is nice, but in a game where an autocorrect DP is one button, why require difficult links at ALL?

    SF4 got it completely backward in my opinion - reversals are easy and combos are hard. Rising Thunder builds on that base, for what seem like fairly arbitrary reasons.

    Show Spoiler
    The most interesting thing about Rising Thunder is that it encourages lots of people who don't know anything about fighting game design to talk about fighting game design because they can ignore move motions... :^)
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2015
  35. Krackatoa

    Krackatoa Painwizard

    Location:
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    Rising Thunder is an easier SFIV... but in order to play offensively well you have to do really hard things due to how powerful and dumb DPs are (DP xx FA is silly)... Vlad's whole offense revolves around conversions into tight safejump setups. That's not something you can expect new players to get or execute.
     
    Fumako and Mr Peck like this.
  36. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

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    Welp, this game is okay. I'm just going to sit back and see if anything changes in this game. If not then I'll just move back to my SF 3rd Strikes.
     
  37. Vagplus

    Vagplus Buy a Ps Vita!

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    Talos looks so freaking hype, I am so gonna main Talos when i get my key hopefully.
    "Εμπρός!"
     
  38. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

    Location:
    Unknown
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    or you could just play iron tagger and get the same kind of thing. Cause Talos has a couple of moves that are very similar to Tagger. Not say that it's bad, but Iron Tagger is the more fleshed out idea of the magnetic grappler than Talos is.
     
  39. Vagplus

    Vagplus Buy a Ps Vita!

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    True but i didn't like Blazblue that much due to the combo system being really diffirent. (At least for me)

    I just like Talos a lot cause of his voice and design, in fact i like a lot of the characters cause of their designs even if they are robots.
     
  40. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

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    The netcode seems good from what I've played of online ranked so far.
     

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