Marvel vs Capcom Infinite

Discussion in 'Other Fighting Games' started by Aden, Dec 3, 2016.

  1. FastLikeLightning

    FastLikeLightning Home-Town Zero

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    I think saying that 'Dumb memes can kill games' is, well, not entirely false, but I feel like that's sort of missing the forest in the trees. For example, I don't think anyone would disagree or be surprised if you said that, for example, a really shitty PR run could kill a game, because that's sort of inarguable, and a lot more accurate to the actual story. Let's all be honest here, MvCI had some pretty shit PR, and I don't think anyone could realistically say otherwise.

    I'd also say another reason could have been a very traditional one in all forms of media, which is 'If the people who are making a project don't care about the project, why should the people who buy it?'. It's pretty clear that MvCI was rushed, likely by Marvel and Disney, to be little more than a cash-in for the MCU based on a semi-popular video game series with name recognition. It's an ad, basically, and everything from the models and the voice acting (Dear god the voice acting), to the music, to the roster picks make it pretty clear that more or less nobody on the project thought of it as anything more than an ad. If the people who are making the thing clearly don't really care all that much, then there's no reason why the average consumer would care that much either. You can argue that marketing and graphics and music and sound design and user interface, all of those are secondary to the admittedly good gameplay, but that's just not really how that works. Sure, they're less important, but them being bad still brings the game down, and not just for a casual viewer.

    Saying that 'Gameplay is all that really matters' is taking a very reductive view on the act of game development. It's like saying that 'Writing is all that matters for a movie', because while writing is very important, and a film with poor writing is almost certainly going to be bad, but a film with amazing writing isn't automatically great. Everything comes together to create the whole experience, and when the majority of the things that come together are straight-up bad, even if the core element is done well, is still a bad product.

    I'd also like to point out that there are a lot less arcane reasons that the game is failing. Probably the most obvious: why the fuck is it $60 USD? 80% of the roster is an asset flip from UMvC3, with only 6 new characters in the bunch. There was some remodelling to them to fit the new artstyle, but I think most people with eyes would agree that the remodelling was kind of shit, and poorly done. The story mode, if you haven't played it, isn't something that could be reasonably described as 'high budget'. Keep in mind, $60 USD was also the asking price for, say, Injustice 2, which has great graphics, good gameplay, and a Story Mode that people clearly really worked hard and put a lot of money into. It's also the asking price for Tekken 7, a game with, once again, great graphics, and a good character roster, and great gameplay. The game is horrendously overpriced, and that's probably why it's failing as hard as it is, straight up. Having DLC practices that were considered unbelievably scummy even 5 years ago also probably isn't helping that at all.
     
  2. missingno

    missingno Bird/Normal

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    It's like Capcom tried their hardest to burn as many bridges as possible.
     
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  3. Dragonage2ftw

    Dragonage2ftw Well-Known Member

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    I doubt that it sold well here, either.

    It's not even on the top 100 best selling games on Amazon. Even Danganronpa V3 and Senran Kagura: Peach Beach Splash are outpacing it in the West.
     
  4. Maddie

    Maddie A temporary truce Off-Topic Mod

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    what a bummer! hopefully the sales get better for this fun game! I wish capcom the best
     
  5. CountofBleck

    CountofBleck King of Casuals, Infinite American Resets

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    TBH, Capcom has a really bad rep, and this may be the last straw. It's going to take a ton of changes to win back the trust of the masses
     
  6. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

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    The closest thing is Platinum I guess.

    I actually disagree and would call a movie with great writing great regardless of its surroundings. Except maybe if the acting totally took you out of it.

    Similarly, I would be able to overlook most of the shit in this game if it actually did look like a good game. But it looks even worse than Mvc3.

    Honestly, there are doujin air-dash fighters that look more hype and fun then this. With that in mind and all the disservice done to the franchise I don't see much reason to be hype about another generic air-dash masher. Other than it being new and shiny.

    And it's not shiny! It's uuuuuggglllyyyyyyy
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  7. DukeMagus

    DukeMagus Not A Duke; THE Duke

    Marvel 3 also had japanese dubs and some famous voice actors to help attract the audience. and more niche characters (amaterasu, felicia...)
     
  8. missingno

    missingno Bird/Normal

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    That's what I've been trying to tell you. No matter how amazing anyone claims the core gameplay is, people aren't going to blindly trust that after hearing the same thing about SF5, let alone believe it's enough to make up for how terrible everything else is. Because that's what this ultimately boils down to, trust.

    I'm still betting that in a few months time when the novelty has worn off. people will start to sour on the game just as quickly as they did SF5.
     
  9. CountofBleck

    CountofBleck King of Casuals, Infinite American Resets

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    And like I've been trying to tell you it's not about blind trust. I don't know a single person who is like "Capcom did nothing wrong!" The people who eat this up as you say are extremely few, as we can all plainly see.

    I was always going to view MVCI with cautious enthusiasm; I just thought the backlash was limited to small forums and Youtube comments, both of which are not really good gauges of uh...quality conversation. I had no idea the upset was this huge on a grand scale! Its safe to say that Capcom and myself didnt realize how much of the fanbase were casuals and how much were hardcore players (Otherwise Muh functions would have never been as huge a problem)

    As for why you are betting so hard on even the fans of the game to turn, I have no idea. The casual market is dead, there's no need to wish for the fgc to turn either.

    Which brings me to the question I didnt have time to type up earlier: How does Capcom fix this? They defenitely don't have the money to fix most of the major complaints, and the only way the roster is going to get any better is with DLC content. With the way sales are going there's no way in hell its going to be free, and trying to remake the game smells like UMVC3 issues when a new version was made THE VERY SAME YEAR.

    I should note we should keep suggestinos in the realm of possibility; Dont say stuff like "Free X Men DLC Pack as well as an art rework for the whole game"
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  10. Squire Grooktook

    Squire Grooktook The wind blew all day long

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    I'd argue that "functions" would still leave a bad taste for even hardcore fans, but it depends on the individual. I think the issue is more that it appeals to neither group.

    Casuals don't care for how ugly and limited it looks, and how many fan favorites are absent or in poor shape.
    Hardcore have more discerning tastes to fall for this poorly designed broken mess in large numbers.

    Both audiences are still relevant, I think. But they got the worst of both worlds.

    And given how budget this whole game looks and feels, charging 60 dollars for it is absurd when for as much or less you could get games like Guilty Gear Xrd/Blazblue CF/Skullgirls/Chaos Code/Under Night which are a million times better, not to mention upcoming titles like Dragon Ball Fighter and Arcsys Cross Fighting.

    Or you could just play Vampire Savior on fightcade. Hell, even budget indie/doujin fighters like Koihime Enbu and Nitroplus Blasterz have more interesting mechanics and solid/fun gameplay then this clusterfuck.

    I'll consider picking it up myself it goes for like...under $10 on sale. I don't think I'll get enough play out of it to justify more then that.


    Man I'm a downer. I'm sorry, I just can't stand Capcom's output anymore.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
    Fumako and missingno like this.
  11. CountofBleck

    CountofBleck King of Casuals, Infinite American Resets

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    My main concern now is what the powers that be upstairs are gonna draw from all this. My ultimate fear is that this will be a Franchise Killer just like with Soul Calibur 5, where not even on its 20th anniversary was there even a whimper of any news of development on anything new.

    EDIT: I just remembered that Marvel vs games never truly sold well in Japan, and apparently Europe's game market is a total mess right now. The Pokken thing beat out MVCI, but it also was the top of the chart at a whopping 53k+ units in the area.

    It seems the last saving grace is where Marvel is most popular, in North America. I'm a bit apprehensive, but its Capcom's last shot if it wants to not sink its ship.

    EDIT EX EDITION: Yeesh, what a convenient time for Extra Credits to pop up with one of these...
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  12. Aden

    Aden Beep Boop Meow

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    Apparently there was a 7GB patch today, anyone know what that was about?
     
  13. BeatNinja

    BeatNinja *Sneezes*

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    7 fuckin gigs
     
  14. DukeMagus

    DukeMagus Not A Duke; THE Duke

    Unreal has these problems where it packs a lot of stuff into huge files.
     
  15. Jutsei

    Jutsei Unwavering Hype

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    I read a summary of the plot on Wikipedia.
    Fanfiction doesn't even BEGIN to cover it
    But it sounds fun and stupid in the endearing way, like... yeah, this sounds like what'd happen if both universes fused together.
    Show Spoiler
    What is up with Capcom and removing Ryu's Satsui no Hado lately, though?

    But, to be fair, I did like some of the combinations
    (Dark Dimension + Darkstalkers? Good. A.I.M. + Umbrella? Perfect.)
     
  16. Aden

    Aden Beep Boop Meow

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    Okay, but then what's the other 6 gigs?
     
  17. FastLikeLightning

    FastLikeLightning Home-Town Zero

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    Have you ever downloaded an SFV patch? It's the exact same issue. Capcom backs all their shit into huge-ass files, and when they need to change anything in those files, they force everyone to redownload the entire thing.

    Like, in order to fix those two minor bugs, they probably made everyone, like, redownload the entire replay system, and the entire netplay infrastructure, or at the very least substantial portions of them, because they're too tied together internally to just patch the bit that's broken.
     
  18. Aden

    Aden Beep Boop Meow

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    It was a joke, man. Usually though SFV patch notes are at least longer and they're adding content/reworking shit. But yes, they're still too big.

    It really feels like we entered an era, some time ago now, where no one gives a fuck anymore about optimization in terms of file storage. There is no reason so many games are 35GB or even 60GB now.

    You know, it's kind of funny, I think that more fighting games need to take the SFV approach of having the bulky ass story mode as free DLC (albeit it should probably launch with the game). Keeping Rev 2 on my harddrive was a nuisance, especially when they put out a 12GB update that was just more story that I was never going to touch. Why the fuck is Marvel 50GB? The closest thing to an explanation is that the story probably takes up a lot.
     
  19. Ruin

    Ruin Hopes & Dreams

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    it's basically because of cutscenes and graphical shit

    Super Mario Odyssey is 5.5 GB and you know what it has? Art direction and minimal story.
     
  20. Kawalorn

    Kawalorn Aka Oni

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    In BlazBlue Central Fiction PC version it is possible to save up around 20GB by deleting Story mode stuff (which only makes it crash if you try to enter Story mode). Hopefully something like that is possible here too.
     
  21. Kit Ballard

    Kit Ballard Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me started on DOOM's ~100GB that was on my Ps4.. Yeesh.
     
  22. Dragonage2ftw

    Dragonage2ftw Well-Known Member

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    BOTW was only like 6 gigs.

    I think that Nintendo is just really good at file compression, tbh.
     
  23. DukeMagus

    DukeMagus Not A Duke; THE Duke

    Let me try it like this.

    Imagine they pack all the textures AND one netcode file in a big 7GB block, and they want to patch that small netcode file.

    You need to download the 7GB file again.

    Unreal (devs?) tends to pack a lot of stuff in large block files (all the meshes, all the voices, all the textures, etc.) I'm not sure how it benefits the performance, though.
     
  24. Maddie

    Maddie A temporary truce Off-Topic Mod

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    Plus who knows if that spiderman costume was included in the patch notes

    they wouldnt list anything that they wouldnt want to spoil

    who knows i think its better not to assume
     
  25. CountofBleck

    CountofBleck King of Casuals, Infinite American Resets

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  26. Maddie

    Maddie A temporary truce Off-Topic Mod

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    Black Widow is the fucking best I am IN LOVE WITH HER DESIGN I cannot wait to play her.
     
  27. Ninja

    Ninja [Jazzy Diamonds]

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    i just hope she's not like Gamora where she uses her gun all of the time.

    give me some sneaky spy stuff. Give her a counter or something. idk.

    She's the blackwidow get creative capcom.
     
  28. CountofBleck

    CountofBleck King of Casuals, Infinite American Resets

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    So UMVC3 Jill then.
     
  29. BeatNinja

    BeatNinja *Sneezes*

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  30. Shorydouken

    Shorydouken Resident Battletoad

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    i'll fly there and become the best then leave and never come back
     
  31. Kit Ballard

    Kit Ballard Well-Known Member

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    Geezus fuck Desk..


    Also Easy Allies did a review. I find their reviews pretty on point. Haven't watched it yet though.
     
  32. FastLikeLightning

    FastLikeLightning Home-Town Zero

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    It seems that Spider Man has a true infinite (Hah) using the Reality Stone. This infinite (Hah hah) can't be Counter-Switched (You are unable to Counter-Switch while in web, and because you need to hold the button down, the small gap after you get hit by the Reality projectile isn't enough) and doesn't seem to ever drop (This particular video does it literally until the training mode damage counter overflows into negative numbers).

    To give briefly give false hope, the infinite (Hah hah hah) doesn't normally work unless the opponent is in a neutral state...

    ... But setups into the infinite have already been found for a couple of characters, namely:

    Zero:



    Ultron:

    [Streamable Link]

    and Jedah:



    Aaaaaaaand it's very likely that more setups will be found in the future.

    Have fun waiting for the patch!
     
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  33. Shorydouken

    Shorydouken Resident Battletoad

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    wasn't GR's infinite patched in like a day? are hotfixes no longer a thing in games?
     
  34. CountofBleck

    CountofBleck King of Casuals, Infinite American Resets

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    Lythero Returns to the Marvels!
     
  35. Aden

    Aden Beep Boop Meow

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    Not if there is a console release, typically, since certification, etc.
    Show Spoiler
    Which scares me since not only does that mean slower support for fighting games but it might mean Indivisible's backer build doesn't get constantly updated like the original plan.
     
  36. HiroProtagonest

    HiroProtagonest Splatoonatic

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    Can't wait for Steam's Indivisible Endless Beta.

    Mike makes an entire bonus dungeon, but since he can't get the artists to help it's a Scribble Cat dungeon.
     
  37. BeatNinja

    BeatNinja *Sneezes*

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    what a difference this makes

     
  38. DukeMagus

    DukeMagus Not A Duke; THE Duke

    The modding has started? Maybe fans can do what capcannot
     
  39. CountofBleck

    CountofBleck King of Casuals, Infinite American Resets

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  40. BeatNinja

    BeatNinja *Sneezes*

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    You'll get a second showing of the Monster Hunter trailer and you'll like it
     

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