Fortune matchup advice thread

Discussion in 'Ms. Fortune' started by ShadowCircus, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. ShadowCircus

    ShadowCircus Sexy magician

    Steam:
    ShadowCircus
    PSN:
    GhastlyPirate
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Painwheel
    This thread was made to complain about Double and how she rolfstomps you with stupidity ask for advice on dealing with that one character you specifically have so much trouble fighting for whatever reason.
     
  2. Vladislav_Paizis

    Vladislav_Paizis On hiatus from SG

    Location:
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Steam:
    Vladislav_Paizis
    PSN:
    Vlad7779311
    Ms. Fortune
    Eliza
    Unknown
    What's better? Fight against Peacock with head on or headless? I have a lot of trouble dealing with the ground bombs when headless.

    Can Fortune counter Filia's IAD J.HP, J.HK string or Painwheel/Double's J.HP?
     
  3. NOX

    NOX You die in the game, you die for real

    Steam:
    /id/kuzu-nox/
    Filia
    Painwheel
    Double
    Head off means you're forcing them to waste all their bombs on the ground to keep the head away or a free nom for you if they don't do that. The damage will add up but it more or less removes one of her zoning tools so make of it what you will. Sneeze is also fully invincible so consider using that to get the head around bombs.
    Fiber upper or sneeze should pretty easily deal with Filia IAD j.HP approaches, but Double's j.HP/Painwheel's j.MP is a different story since it has such a mean disjointed hitbox. A well-timed fiber upper will beat a careless j.MP/HP but a well-spaced j.MP/HP will just go through fiber upper's invincibility and put them on the ground next to you while you recover. It's risky. You can try to bait them but at the same time they're probably trying to bait you since any Painwheel should be looking for DPs when they go in.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2013
  4. ShadowCircus

    ShadowCircus Sexy magician

    Steam:
    ShadowCircus
    PSN:
    GhastlyPirate
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Painwheel
    I've found that when dealing with P-bombs; head off is a good position to be in. Like the post above me said it means that your head blocks the bombs but since this is the case, it also gives you a means to air dash in and hit one of your air normals(preferably j.HK) provided the peacock in question is using one of the ground bombs
     
  5. DDB

    DDB Annie Train into Callie Station!

    Location:
    Oh god help me
    Steam:
    DDB of the Stars
    PSN:
    DiddyBound
    Ms. Fortune
    Beowulf
    Filia
    So... how should I deal with ANOTHER Ms. Fortune? My head gets messed up by the other head.
     
  6. DARKNESSxEAGLE

    DARKNESSxEAGLE Master of Disguise

    Location:
    Europe (UK)
    Steam:
    DixiE
    PSN:
    DARKNESSxEAGLE
    Filia
    Cerebella
    Ms. Fortune
    j.HKj.HKj.HK
    That's what I do anyway. Also super jumping and double jumping before using a head attack has 2 benefits:
    1) Maximum height (advantage goes to highest Fortune so smoke that stuff like there's no tomorrow)
    2) Easier to catch anyone grounded off guard with head attacks as it'll be off-screen

    Finally, air super is less risky because it'll do the second hit even if you just hit their head, which is good for catching people off guard and just starting up some good old pressure.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2013
    DDB likes this.
  7. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
  8. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Seeing as we don't have a standard match up thread this will have to do.

    I want to make the case that head on vs peacock is actually pretty good, or at the very least it is good for ruining patterns. Headless has taken a big nerf with the cooldown on hit, but more importantly she is missing invincibility on fiber. I was getting a lot of mileage from pbgc'ing hk fiber while head on to bust out of a pattern and get to midscreen pretty easily. There are a lot more holes in her patterns once you start using this. If you want to headspike as soon as you follow up on the fiber then you can, but pbgc fiber is my new favorite way to move vs peacock. At the very least head on should be in the coversation.
     
    dorne likes this.
  9. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    can anyone that played fukua know what to do? i feel like she owns this match up for some godforsaken reason and since i can't combo into headless what do i do exactly?
     
  10. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    If she tries to go in by follwing up a fireball you should pushblock her. And the fact that she gets no damage from air throws means you can hang out in the air a lot. Dodge her fireballs and bait her intothtowing an air to air fireball then dash under if you want, be careful though because she recovers quickly after air fireballs.

    I like headless vs fukua especially because I don't think her launcher hits the head. In general if you play skart and don't hit a lot of buttons you should be fine, I don't see this match up being difficult for fortune.
     
  11. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    so i played more matchups of fukua vs forutne.....i still think it sux hard for fortune.

    her air normals beat fortune's. if fortune goes head all fukua has to do is c mp s hp > j hp to fire ball to zone again i'll wait till she's in retail but with shadows its starting to suck hard. fortunately i main her and fortune so i'll try my best to find somethings.
     
  12. dorne

    dorne New Member

    Steam:
    Dorne
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Fibre Upper is awesome against peacock's zoning. Peacock expects double jumps and air dashes but HK Fibre on head on does wonders for mobility.

    Also I find jumping back > Cat Strike can net a nice first blood against peacock. The head goes really far as long as its not interrupted by a stray hornet bomber or assist.
     
  13. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Those two techniques work against average peacocks, but good peacock just destroy them. The only way fiber is useful vs peacock is if you pbgc at a precise moment in her pattern where she wont hit the extended hurtbox. And cat strike might hit them but you aren't gonna convert off it, its ok but then you have to deal with headless vs peacock which fucking sucks now. Peacock can neutral jump at the beginning of the match and has quite a few options to move around the cat strike, which makes it really risky. The best thing that head on has, aside from a really really well timed/lucky pbgc fiber, is her low dash height so she can do IAD throw and weave through the bombs. It's a match up I'm still trying to figure out, its really complicated.

    Oh, headless has the slide, which can be good if the head soaks up the ground georges or peacock does hp.bang. Khaos has played some long sets with TJ as headless so watching those might give you some ideas.
     
  14. Φ

    Φ Pessimistic bitch

    Location:
    California
    Steam:
    Sadistic Cyanide
    PSN:
    ZombieHopper
    Fukua
    Parasoul
    Eliza
    I need some advice...

    I run point Fukua (sometimes Parasoul), with Parasoul, and Squigly in the back. And I have the hardest time against any Peacock. Should I do some team swapping, or am I doing something wrong? Because I can't really see an opening anywhere, I'm not that great. Any advice would be appreciated.
     
  15. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    I also need some advice vs Peacock because fuuuuuuuuuuck that head cooldown change is killing me.
    Slide worked out when I first started using it. It's still nice, but it's still difficult to find a time to use it. I'm starting to think that head-on may be better against Peacock now, surprisingly. You get a lower airdash height and it's easier to get the initial mixup on her since she can launch > Bang the head away or just keep it locked down with projectiles. And it's easy (unnecessarily difficult) to transition from head-on to headless in a combo for sandwich stuff, too. The head soaking up a ground bomb is great and all... until you get hit by the assist.

    I really want to see Taluda's or Guitalex's Fortune vs Peacock. Namely TJGamer or Dekillsage because there is just something about Lock 'N Load assist....

    I think you're in the wrong character forum, heh.
     
  16. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    i was talking about this match up earlier and got "oh just fiber upper" atleast now i can see some decent answer out of this
     
  17. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    so @Camail @KhaosMuffins i have an idea on the peacock mess...it will involves be very attentive on your head placement(depending on playstyle).

    how bout using cat spike? i'm pretty sure you can combo after cat spike.

    to get in i'm pretty sure both of you that you pbgc after H george to fiber to victory. if you can get past fullscreen and get to midscreen you actually time your jump to get in between the walking george, the car george, and the flying george. from there its advisable to pseudo combo "j mp j mk cat spike" because they're still standing and will have to deal with sandwich and mix ups. this is mainly a reset heavy type of match because if you do happen to finish the combo and you're headless and she techs then you got way too many factors and so you would immediately have to cat call.
     
  18. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    I use cat spike all the time. I don't quite get what you're saying in the rest of your explanation, though.
     
  19. Choose Goose

    Choose Goose #sadboys

    Valentine
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    Depending on the peacock's pattern, I've had had some (accidental) success with fibering > adc through the gap between a ground and air lenny.

    I then feel really proud of myself and get bopped, so ymmv
     
  20. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    TL;DR

    when you get near peacock and do your combo exchange it for cat spike because it won't combo and because it won't combo it will be a block string and since its a block string and you're headless so pretty much you set yourself to a sandwich.

    other TL:DR if you want to keep head on Reset with j lp j lk>crossover jlp and more resets. this is not a game for combos but more for resets and keeping close to peacock.
     
  21. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    You CAN combo into headspike and that's the more reliable way to get her in a sandwich. The problem with trying to blockstring with catspike is that they can just pushblock you and double jump away. And of course... you still need to get the hit first which is the whole issue.
     
  22. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    i know full well that you CAN. but i want more of the pressure which in exchange for the damage i could've done and keep her close...i'd trade. of course they pushblock T_T...welp that blew a hole in my system
     
  23. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    I mean, the sandwich setup is more reliable if you combo into cat spike and then purposefully drop the combo afterwards after restanding them with jabs.

    But still. The problem is getting the hit in the first place.
     
  24. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Yea and you can't rely on just going through bombs because they will adapt in 3 seconds and start calling m item drop. That's also why pbgc hk fiber isn't free, you have to guess what part of the pattern they are on and avoid getting hit by the item drop or flying george, or the assist, or a walking george, she has a lot of ways to stuff the fiber but the holes will sometimes exist. It is by no means an extremely consistant option, its safer to chicken block to midscreen and go from there.
     
  25. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    I remember when LK Fiber upper was invincible... that'd make life easier.
     
  26. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    yes i agree its a very attentive match up for fortune and it sucks with assists like........brass and what not...i dunno i feel like i have to counter pick.....i hope you guys find something interesting tho.
     
  27. Sharnt

    Sharnt Member

    Beowulf
    Fukua
    Ms. Fortune
    Can someone explain how works peacock patterns, I understand shit about it (Mainly because I'm not into zoners and the char just doesn't interest me).

    If someone is kind enough to do the same for Parasoul I'll take it gladly too.
     
  28. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    typical parasouls just napalm shot....simple the good ones will do napalm toss. And then use j mp to set off the tosses... for peacock...beats me
     
  29. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Well parasoul doesn't have zoning patterns, you just guess whether or not she will throw a diagonal or horizontal tear and maybe keep track of when they will detonate. If parasoul decides to start spamming h tearshot at fullscreen and you get too scared to jump and potentially get hit by the detonation of the tear she shot 60 frames ago, don't be. Either up back if you can't shake the fear or grow a pair and chicken block. Once you are out of the pseudo lockdown then Parasoul actually has to respond. They'll only tear throw if they feel safe enough at full screen which really should never happen vs fortune. HK fiber once to get close and threaten, it will change the tempo of the match. At that point you have to react to the player and whether or not they are gonna backdash and still try and zone, or contest your advance to the middle with her normals. Don't meet parasoul air2air because you'll get wrecked. But that's no longer zoning so I'll stop there. The point is that its easy to get out of parasoul's projectile game, once you force her to zone you out with normals you can catch them making mistakes and being over protective of her position.

    Peacock, on the other hand, has a lot of variety with her projectiles, so she has a lot of patterns that she can use. Right now I'm tired and I should go to sleep so I'll do a quick run down of her projectiles and some uses she gets from them, its super general and it wont be complete because its fucking 5 am. I don't know a whole lot about playing as peacock, this is the best I can do with my own experience against peacock, there are a ton of things that I won't even know, but its a good starting point to figuring out her projectiles. 80% chance I wont even come back to this.

    s.hp, its a great normal for her because it adds one horizontal projectile to any special move she wants to do. Peacock's usually use it that way, but will sometimes sacrifice it to make the hole between special moves tighter if they really need to get an item drop out or have an assist that is already covering the height where s.hp comes out. It also has the benefit of being a normal that can be cancelled into mp bang as a reaction, so it isn't the best idea to approach a good peacock at this point in the pattern unless you are baiting something like an mp bang.

    hp bang, really nice for keeping you in blockstun while item drop or your assist cools down. Also a delayed 2nd or 3rd shot is a handy frame trap that either puts them in hit stun (which gives the peacock plenty of time to establish the next part of their pattern) or trains you into downbacking even harder. Also its just a damn good projectile that's really fast and oppressive. The drawback is that she is spending an awful lot of time dealing with low flying projectiles, if you manage to catch her whiffing this move you better take full advantage of it. Good peacocks always have a way of making sure you are on or near the ground when they use this, but it's something to look out for.

    item drop is a bitch. If there is one timing you are going to learn, its the maximum time a peacock can hold item drop before it charges to lvl 2. Item drop can be held and released in such a way as to make her patterns feel erratic, but the limiting factors are distance, charge, cooldown, and player reads. There are places on the screen that she just can't hit with item drop, learn them and try and be in those wonderful places, the charge is crucial because the higher level the charge the longer the move is unusable, the likelihood of the item being dropped peaks right before the item would charge to the next level. The cooldown period is where peacocks direct aerial zoning will be at its weakest, it is usually a very short window, made even shorter by patterns that use carefully placed assists, georges, and hp bang to stop your advance. If you have to block an item drop remember to block it in the air, the move has a minor vacuum effect that pulls you closer to the peacock. But int he end it all comes down to how the peacock reacts to your play, she will change her timing and distances, and at this point I don't have anything to say. I'm bad.

    The Georges. Bleh. Probably gonna use air george and waking george (h and l, respectively) and throw in a s.hp at the beginning because fuck you. You can crouch the air george pretty effectively at a little less than full screen, the tracking can be used to your advantage because the bombers are not an immediate threat due tot heir relatively slow speed. Walking george is usually meant as a way to prevent you from dashing up during a later part of the pattern and as a general way to ruin your plans as the little shit just sits their being an annoying hitbox. On the plus side, on their own they are easy to deal with. If you see a peacock rely heavily on georges it won't be that heart to super jump over them or dash up and block the walking george while the flying george flies over your head to the tracked location. A lot of bad peacocks rely on them way too much.

    I'm done for now, there's also j.hk which is really good and prevents a ton of shit when used sparingly at the right distance. I suggest that everyone go into the lab with peacock and try and replicate the patterns they see other people do. It's the best way to get a clear understanding of the rhythm and planning a peacock has to put into their patterns.
     
  30. Sharnt

    Sharnt Member

    Beowulf
    Fukua
    Ms. Fortune
    Thanks for the input, I've been trying to work on this but even beginner peacock's are giving me issues, so I guess I just have to work harder.
     
  31. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Beginner peacocks usually have pretty big holes in their patterns, super jump right after she calls georges and you get over everything they do.
     
  32. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Parasoul doesn't zone with Tearshots
     
  33. InstallGentoo

    InstallGentoo New Member

    Steam:
    InstallGentoo
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Wat2do against Zoning in general? I tend to play a reactionary game but when my opponent doesn't do jack but chuck the screen full of projectiles theres not much to punish. Squigly is a real pain, peacock less so.
     
  34. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

    Location:
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Steam:
    fullbleed
    PSN:
    nFuLLBLeeD
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Do you guys prefer headless or head on against Peacock, and why?

    And a question for @KhaosMuffins, which matchups do you prefer headless Fortune in, and why?
     
  35. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    To be perfectly honest, I don't even know anymore. How it tends to be for me is...
    Valentine: Head-on - She's in the air too much.

    Filia: Head-on - Need fiber upper + She's also in the air a lot.

    Cerebella: I almost want to say head-on, not even joking. Combo'ing her while headless is a pain because of how she likes to hit the ground in situations where other characters would be juggled by zoom. And she can actually lock the head down now. I'll just say headless, though... because your normals are still gonna get wrecked by Bella's.

    Peacock: I have no clue anymore. Headless slide worked nicely for a bit. Then it stopped working.

    Big Band: Headless because he's like Bella. RIP if the body and the head get hit by SSJ, though (hella chip damage or you just straight up die).

    Parasoul: Headless because she still sucks against the head.

    Double: Head-on. Need fiber for those j.HP's. PBGC Fiber during catheads is a good way to get yourself killed, though....

    Painwheel: Head-on unless you like losing. People are finally starting to see that this is actually a bad matchup for Fortune (and has been since the change to Fiber's ability to follow-up).

    Squigly: Headless. Keep her from getting charges for free.

    Fukua: I have no clue. I think Fukua just outright beats Fortune in both modes.... Clones + fireballs do a hilarious job of keep the head in check while still keeping the body wary. j.HK beats EVERYTHING you do. She can probably combo off of hitting a Fiber Upper at max range after invincibility wears off and/or you're headless....

    A gameplan of "Stay head-on and then transition to headless mid-combo and then reset them to death" is also an option.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2014
    CaioLugon and DARKNESSxEAGLE like this.
  36. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

    Location:
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Steam:
    fullbleed
    PSN:
    nFuLLBLeeD
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Yeah unfortunately the nerf to Fiber Upper really forces you to play head on in many matchups now. Headless Fortune is definitely weaker.
     
  37. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    Are you sure about Head off against Squigly? Stopping her from gaining charges is good but alot of her stance cancel combos do a ton of damage to you and your head. Also the matchup against cerebella should be head off in almost all situations. You can stay on the other side of the screen and fiber upper, dash or jump away from here approach while nom can grab here out of normal, her throw command throw as well as the startup of her level 3. For Double you said head on but the head off make her car super much harder to utilize and she has to burn two bars for catheads which makes it alot less threating than it used to be and having the head off limits her zoning.
     
  38. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    For Squigly's stancel combos, that is true, but getting the hit in the first place with Fortune and threatening Squigly with the head when she has to land is more important, I'd say. Really, with Squigly you can go either way, but I think headless is the better option against her.

    Double car is like... unimportant. They can combo into it easily whether or not Fortune has the head on, they just "maybe" have to give up a bit of positioning. And they're probably gonna save for catheads, anyways. Double deals with the head really well so honestly it doesn't limit her that much. If the head is close she can just launch the head > Luger. If the head is far away then she can keep both the head and the body out with j.HP because the only thing beating that is Sneeze or a super.
     
  39. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Yea double can cr.hp xx mp luger, she can launch the head, she can cr.hp lp/hp luger to keep you from going in. She can still play a lot of her defensive options and deal with the head at the same time, the 15f cooldown is the most annoying with her and peacock because its really hard to ind the window where you can actually use sneeze to get the head away and its not worth dedicating that much time on the head. It's better to represent aggression and make them back off, which is still hard because of luger and her far reaching normals that also hit the head. The only solution I've found is just guessing right on the approach and punishing the head harass, but I really haven't gotten a lot of games in with headless, let alone having the neutral to keep them from just rushing me down.
     
  40. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    What have you guys been using against Valentine. I usually try early fiber upper if I see a dash, use j.lp-j.mk into axekick, or get them to whiff air normal and apply pressure.
     

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