Discussion in 'Other Fighting Games' started by Spencer, Jul 20, 2015.
I miss anti-comeback mechanics like Dizzy.
I worked really hard on this.
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At least let me see it in bar form. It's not encouraging at all if I cant see how much stun they have left, at least yata lets you see the bar.
Speaking of yata I wish the walkspeed was better the more I play the more simple and stubby the footsies feel.
I don't mind stun being invisible or visible, but I wonder how the meta would change if players could only see their own stun. Players could purposely emulate typical "I'm near stun" antics (probably after getting hit a few times) to goad the opponent into rushing in.
Based on my little experience with mobas, and with SFIV.
Good players will learn how much stun everything does, and even if they don't see your stun bar, they'll know.
I don't like pressing one button for specials(sometimes why I dont like smash). Input shortcuts on the other hand is fine b/c otherwise I wouldn't be able to do 360s in SG with keyboard. I like putting effort in doing special moves even if the effort is a super easy motion like quarter circle. It also feels good to buffer a special move. I actually have trouble mashing out a reversal at times, but making it easier to do the reversal doesn't run with me. Maybe I'm new to this, but I always thought motions were to make executing reversals harder thus promoting knowing when to press it instead of mashing it. Knowing when to do it deserves a thumbs up like when Momochi punished Daigo's fireball with the kick ultra(I think it was CEO), not mashing it out or just executing the reversal.
Been looking at footage of games and the gameplay doesn't interest for some reason I don't quite know but feel. Some of the models look great talos, crow and a few others, but for Chel I couldn't tell she was a boxer until I looked at her pose. I'm just here looking for something to catch my eyes besides some of the models. Don't mind me :L
Kind of an invalid argument. People mash grappler 720's all the time.
Hey forgive my ignorance but does S-Kill, or Steam, have any plans on getting the game on Mac/Linux? Bear with me here because I have been way out of the loop and wouldn't be surprised if I got a no. Mac gaming is abysmal ; A ;
Chel is a folk hero, Dauntless is the boxer.
I'm... not sure Mr. WayForger.
uhhhhhh. also @Grangach to get the stun glitch have your opponent at 780-790 stun (for characters that have 1100 stun) and the stun must happen with the anti-air grab.
Stun isn't actually all that anti-comeback simply because it effectively turns up the aggregate damage of the game. In high damage games, you aren't actually that far behind when your health is low, since you only need a couple breaks to even things up. But stun turns up damage a little more selectively and interestingly than just dialing it up so high that everyone gets 80% combos.
yeah the problem is that combos kinda scale pretty fast so in most cases the majority of the damage is in the first 2-3 hits, everything else scales down to 30%
if the game's scaling was decreased combos would do a bit more damage and it might actually help promote the burst function a little bit more.
also yay my dumb video was posted on shoryuken.com I feel so proud of myself... not really, would have liked it if my video was just left in the void.
I feel like if you're running Kinetic Deflect over Advance, you've pretty much messed up right out of the gate.
What if the Kinect deflect was an alpha counter instead a combo breaker?
what if you had both Deflector AND Advanced. It would make players better manage their kinetic meter that's for sure.
I definitely agree with this, but I think how you can meter would have to change, since (unless I am mistaken) it appears that Advance meter is gained from attacking while Deflect meter is gained from taking damage, the latter being part of what makes Deflect suck in my opinion.
But having both available and having to choose in the heat of the moment whether you want to Advance to get more combo damage and give up a defensive option or Deflect to get out of a bad situation but not have that damage option available when you want to make your comeback later would be interesting. After all, this is what SFV is doing with the V-gauge: You can V-reversal to turn the table and get a knockdown now or you can hold onto it for V-trigger later and really cut loose.
¡SE APROXIMA EL ROBO GIGANTE!
...It already is both, sorta. You can deflect a blockstring just like you deflect a combo.
I can't even run this game so I have no interest but here some codes in case some of you guys still don't have the beta key
Based on that, applying pressure shouldn't be hard too? I mean, getting out of mixups and resets is something really hard, but doing those mix ups and applying pressure that leaves only 1 ~2 frame gap for the oponent to counter attack is something easy in comparison. So you have an offensive player that doesn't need to work nearly as hard to keep his offense versus a deffensive player that needs to be frame perfect to escape situations...
Getting the ability to apply pressure is a reward of playing the neutral game better than the other player.
Incorrect. Stun only turns up the damage against YOU when YOU do poorly.
It effectively further punishes players getting unlucky, the last thing you actually want to punish since they already got hit.
It doesn't turn up the damage in all situations, and it changes dynamics a lot. If you are within stun range even getting Jabbed a few times converts into huge damage, so it lowers the risks you can take after getting hit, which is a situation in which you will pretty much need to take higher risks.
It can also drastically alter the balance of a game when finally mastered and abused - witness 3s Makoto's 100% combos against most of the cast.
Basically, stun adds artificial tension by stacking the odds further against the losing player, provides opportunities for a low-risk option to grant the reward you'd normally get from a high-risk option, and if the developers get unlucky can severely alter game balance. Stun doesn't bring any positives, IMO, and I say that as someone who uses it effectively in 3s and GG. Invisible or random stun is even worse.
I don't really know how you can think that. Bursts are just about the most powerful mechanic in fighting games, the bursts in Rising Thunder are cheap cheap cheap.
Advance is fun, sure, but in the long run I can't see it being a viable choice if bursts stay as cheap as they are now.
Perfection. Print it, Ship it, Sell it, Love it. Next Evo 2016 game coming this way! Paved in the liquid gold of success.
pfffft no. God No. This game is meh, but still better than Beasts Fury which was like popping a zit that is just outside Satan's butt hole.
They're easy but they don't really do anything except reset to neutral, and you had to take a bunch of damage to build up the kinetic meter to use them in the first place, so you're still at a disadvantage if you're losing. Advance, meanwhile, builds up from attacking, so you're rewarded for a strong offense by being able to do more offense, and the potential payoff to using the cancels is obvious. Advance has no downside whatsoever, while Deflect is fairly perilous to accomplish for little relative reward.
Also, we play Skullgirls, a game with two bursts that are predominantly used to try to punish the player bursting for a free reset into a full counterhit combo, whereas all the bursting player gets if it's not a bait is resetting to neutral. So I guess in the sense that they risk getting you killed if you use them recklessly, bursts are plenty powerful. Just not for you.
Yes but that's because SG bursts are baitable, very baitable.
Rising Thunder bursts are not, you tend to get 2 a round and no penalty for using them. You can cut down a LOT of effective damage. With how damage scaling is in this game, you generally don't lose too much damage per combo either. Probably character dependent, but even as a Crow player, where I can get over 100 more damage from using Advance, I just don't think it is worth it. It's a win more.
More chances to win > Win more
At least that statement seems pretty safe to me.
The one thing it does for me that I really like is cancelling fireballs, but getting two of those per round is not as good as getting advantage (the bursts knock down BTW) for my OPPONENT winning neutral against me twice a round.
Might be an argument for characters who can dash cancel their DPs, but I really just wish DPs were not dash cancelable as a rule, there are other moves that can't dash cancel so there is a precedent.
"But if Dps aren't dash cancelable then how will we be able to make those super cool swag juggle combos, and make our desperate mashing safe?!" - Cried the SF4 community, their faces red with anger and their eyes were tearing up from the thought of actually playing with real strategy.
You absolutely do not get 2 bursts a round. 1 and a third, maybe
If you lose super hard you get about 1 and a bit, if if it is more even, you get quite a bit. I am bursting about 3 to 5 times per best of 3 usually.
these forums man
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More combo damage, better pressure, and more opportunities to use Advance since it's built by attacking>one burst a round at the cost of getting my butt whooped, imo.
But maybe things are just different for Chel than they are in Crow Land.
You don't have to man. I'm in there. dying... slowly dying as I see the ignorance spread like wild fire.
You skipped a big difference: Skullgirls bursts are specifically designed to avoid the scenarios that make bursts pretty much the most powerful tool in fighting games.
Skullgirls bursts are only given to you when the opponent GIVES you one, and you cannot save it for after that combo. You do not get to sit on your burst and have it at the ready until you are about to die, thus forcing another touch off what would be a round-ending hit. And you can't keep the threat of your burst present at all times, forcing the opponent to choose between spending meter in the hopes you don't burst and make that "wasted meter", or opting for lower damage off hits they do land just in case you do burst.
And if you're wondering how much of a difference that makes, consider the myriad "Skullgirls needs combo breakers!" posts from newbies. Since I can fight you for a whole game without giving you a burst, because you only get one at times of my choosing, they are not "bursts" in the generally accepted meaning of the concept.
I've been thinking the exact same thing, meter management is practically non existant. You just use it if you have it but theres no reason to hang onto it.
blerg you know how i said that i wouldn't post another Rising Thunder Video, yeah this one is now the last one
I'm very torn right now as to how strong bursts are. I think it's a given that bursts can be strong, but I don't think that necessarily means that they are always strong as it really depends on how much damage they avoid.
The thing that seems ironic to me is that in Rising Thunder bursts only seem all that strong if your opponent chose advance.
The reason is that without advance, combo damage is pretty low and so bursts, though helpful, aren't really the P4AU/GG/BB "avoid 70% damage" type of burst.
For my money, I'd like both to be active with a burst costing the full bar and advance working as is. I don't think it is a given to "save up for burst" because some times you'll absolutely need or want the extra damage which will slow bursts down, potentially significantly.
I do like that you have to build up to bursts instead of starting the round with them though.
Also, I don't know if it is because it is trying to cater to casuals... but jesus, does anyone block in this game?
Other than people who have played other fighting games... mmmmmmmmhhhhhhhnnnnnnoooooooope. Blocking is a hard thing to grasp due to it's unusual requirements of holding backwards on the directional pad, sometimes even holding down back to block a low.
That's kinda my point. And it honestly makes the stun issue less of an issue imo. It won't mean much to new comers, but being aware of how much stun someone has (or could have) can make a difference in higher level matches.
The stages of a beginner at fighters according towards blocking, based on myself.
1-"i can't block" this is the beginning, where the guy is only hitting buttons trying to attack, and so, they never block.
2-"I now can block, but i'm getting hit by sweeps", is the part where the guy learns how to block, but doesn't know about blocking while crouching.
3-"What the f* is an overhead?!", the part where you learn about crouch blocking, and think that is the only thing needed to avoid any damage, and then, the overhead happens. =P
4-"Which side is he?!", well, kinda self explanatory at this point.
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