MysteriousJ is bad at skullgrils

Discussion in 'Training Diaries' started by MysteriousJ, Dec 16, 2015.

  1. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

    Location:
    NW OR / Boise ID
    Double
    Filia
    Eliza
    I feel like I've gotten to a point where I can analyze my play and utilize advice, so I'm finally starting one of these. I'm just going to write notes to myself in the form of questions. If anyone wants to answer them, please do so.

    Filia's been a crutch for way too long and I haven't been improving with her. I'm trying to make my new team Robo-Eliza. Robo looks really fun, and I like that if I get hit I'm fucked. I think not being able to mash pbgc reversal will force me to improve. I mostly want to learn Eliza because I have no idea how to fight her. I can beat people's other characters no sweat and then Eliza comes out and wipes through my entire team.

    To start with:
    What's Eliza's standard hit confirm?
    What do I do after a blocked c.lk c.mp s.mk hit confirm with robo? I've never known how to follow up blocked hit confirms. I usually just block and lose my pressure, because if I try to do something I get poked out.
     
  2. BlueFeena

    BlueFeena Active Member

    Steam:
    BlueFeena
    Eliza
    For Eliza, you generally want to use j.mk from a safe distance. If it connects, dash cancel into another j.mk and you should be able to follow up with whatever you like as long as you are not too far away. Once caveat to keep in the back of you head at all times is Eliza's large hurt boxes that extend into her blood -- her j.mk, in other words. If you time the attack far too early, you are basically giving your opponent a large hurt box to whack out of the air. Similarly, her moves start up a bit on the slow side, so timing the attack at close range can result in you getting stuffed.

    I have found that you need to be clever on the ground -- her c.lk is a good poke but requires you to get fairly close to your opponent. This is extremely unwise against a character like Filia, who is looking for any oppourtunity to get her crossup/mixup hell going. You can sometimes hit your opponent with a sudden heavy Upper Khat but you need to space it and time it carefully as it is very punishable, and as such, is very unwise to constantly use it outside of combos.
     
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  3. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

    Location:
    NW OR / Boise ID
    Double
    Filia
    Eliza
    So a good hit confirm with eliza is c.lk c.mp sneeze, which will be more plus the further away you are. But what should I do if I'm up really close? Like I just jumped in, they blocked it, now I want to try a low but I'm at point blank. What's my best hit confirm?
     
  4. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Apprentice

    Location:
    Ukraine
    Steam:
    maxquad
    If you're really close, try c.lp. It's faster than c.lk and allows to hit twice, or hit once and throw into H. Upper Khat air H.Sekhmet.
     
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  5. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

    Location:
    NW OR / Boise ID
    Double
    Filia
    Eliza
    I don't know what eliza assist I should use for robo. Now that I've gotten better with robo's zoning, and I'm fighting stronger players, pressure is becoming less important and I don't need osiris to lock down. After watching Mike this weekend generate a bar of meter in like three seconds, spending meter on butcher's blade assist feels awful. Carpenter's axe is pretty cool, but again, it's meter spent. I tried bird call this morning, but eliza keeps getting bopped before he can come out, and lounge chair doesn't really do anything.

    ***

    Kinda want to try learning beowulf and double...
     
  6. Triblue

    Triblue Active Member

    Steam:
    jujubemaster
    Painwheel
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    I recommend dive because of the setups. I don't know how good it is, but have you tried the sweep assist?
     
  7. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I'd use couch assist before using c.HK assist. They both cause blue bounce, but the couch at least you can still combo off if you're close enough. Actually that might be interesting, Robo's dash is so fast that I bet she can convert from pretty far away. I'd be interested to see someone try that.
     
  8. DawnHibiki

    DawnHibiki Dog Lover & Idol

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Steam:
    Dawn111
    Fukua
    Squigly
    Have you tried using Osiris Spiral as Eliza's assist? I've seen that assist works really well for Robo-Fortune, like after you do Robo-Fortune's s.HP + Osiris Spiral, you can convert it into a combo. It also works as a mixup tool, especially at the corner.
     
  9. Triblue

    Triblue Active Member

    Steam:
    jujubemaster
    Painwheel
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    Is it possible with a magnet pickup?
     
  10. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    I have no idea! That's the sort of thing that'd be neat to mess around with.

    Man I was all excited for the Vita version of Skullgirls so I could just test this stuff the second I think about it, and now it's out on Vita, but I left my Vita at home :x
     
    Triblue likes this.
  11. Senjin

    Senjin Active Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    Steam:
    Senjin
    PSN:
    bass6286
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Unknown
    I just tried both of these (tested against Filia, Parasoul, and Double) from fullscreen. Robo's dash is about the same speed as the couch (a tad slower), so you can call couch and then follow it across the screen. If it hits, you can convert with j.LK, j.MK, land -> combo or j.MP, land -> combo. If they block or avoid it you wouldn't be in the worst position either, since you don't have to commit to anything (aside from not blocking) until you see them get launched. I couldn't get magnet conversion to work on Double (that could just be me being bad), but Parasoul and Filia I got to work pretty easily with a held s.MP, s.MK, c.HP -> combo.
     
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  12. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

    Location:
    NW OR / Boise ID
    Double
    Filia
    Eliza
    I want to learn to play a trio. I'm going to mess up absolutely all of my inputs for a few months, but I think I need to take this next step. So, I want to pick a good team and stick with it for a long time. I'm able to play filia, bella, robo, and eliza, and I'd also like to learn beo or double. Anyone's input on team compositions with these characters would be much appreciated! My initial thought is robo or bella point, filia middle with updo assist, and double anchor with bomber assist.
     
  13. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    TBH if you were going to play bella filia and double on the same time, I would personally put bella on anchor and then have either double or filia on point (both have merit). IMO while bella isn't necessarily a significantly better anchor than double, double is a much better point/2nd character than bella is.

    Regarding filia 2nd: When I first started playing trio I started out with Filia 2nd; I ended up switching to filia point but it was mostly due to personal preference. The thing about filia 2nd though is that the point of putting filia 2nd is that most people consider her neutral game to be relatively weak (though some like sage/sonic are starting to disagree), so the idea is that you have a point character that is easily able to put yourself into a position to get filia in, especially if you can do something that would normally not get you a combo but with gregor DHC lets you combo. My first trio was double/filia/BB and a very strong tactic with that team was if you had 2 bars then any gunshot at any distance led to full combo with gun confirm into car and DHC into gregor. The point though is that filia 2nd works best with a point character that is easily able to DHC into gregor (off of easily acquired stray hits, not just dhcing in a combo) or at the very least where gregor gives a combo you would not normally otherwise get. Val can get Filia off of any stray hit into scalpels, double can do car to punish a lot of fullscreen stuff as well as the luger thing I mentioned, etc.

    I don't play robo but from a bit of time I spent in training mode I couldn't really find a situation like that for her. Beam super can give you a combo off of gregor if you still have OTG but despite the post-flash hitstop I don't really consider beam super to be a reliable enough way to get filia in. Filia point with robo second seems a little better because you get beam assist from the start of the game (though I haven't personally found any filia/beam tech/conversions/etc. on paper the assist seems great for her) as well as the fact that gregor -> magnet is a safe dhc (tested even against pbgc ssj so you know its good). The only problem there is that I don't really think M bomber is that good for robo, while M bomber is almost a necessity if you're playing filia and double on the same team because the assist is so good for filia.

    Eliza is obviously a strong character who I dont play so I don't know anything about her but I know she's a good anchor and has a lot of good assists for Filia so she's a pretty versatile pick. As far as general trio construction compared to duo I think the most important thing to consider is DHC synergy for the order you pick (second most important thing would be how well your chars use assists) so just keep that in mind when considering your team. Personally I am very partial to filia/double/<anchor char> but I am trying to stay unbiased.
     
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  14. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

    Location:
    NW OR / Boise ID
    Double
    Filia
    Eliza
    The todo list:
    Filia
    - Figure out some crossover and crossunder resets
    - Practice utilizing j.lp and conversion from it
    Eliza
    - Learn how to use sekmet
    - Try out axe assist
    Double
    - Practice using command dash for resets
    - Learn how to convert off a j.hp that hits the opponent in the air
    - Learn conversions off monster and when to use it
     
  15. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Oh, I think I know the answers to these.

    If you hit air to air with j.HP, usually the easiest conversion is land, jump, j.LP j.MP j.HK, land again, H luger. I've also seen some players do land, jump, j.LP j.MK xx Barrel. If it's a particularly high j.HP, sometimes you can just chain right into j.HK then land and luger.

    Easiest conversion off Monster is just H luger. The timing for it is fire the gun right as the monster starts to submerge. It's not tough if you practice it. The obvious times to use monster are to super cancel into it off either Cilia Slide, barrel, or L Hornet Bomber (for this last one though, it's punishable on block even with the super cancel, so if you see them block you may as well save the bar). You can also set it out to slow things down when you need a breather. It can also be used to cover tags to your other characters, although be careful about this with Filia, since her tag moves her very far forward where the monster is no longer keeping her safe.

    I think the only reset with flesh step is whatever ground string into qcb+assist. Just don't do it so fast that the assist combos.
     
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  16. Lex

    Lex Skill pending

    Location:
    Scotland, UK
    Steam:
    Lex
    PSN:
    Ilexyellowdog
    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    For converting off monster you can also just use MKx2. Even if you miss with the first MK, the second will OTG, allowing you to combo. If you don't mind losing your OTG, I find this to be the easiest way to convert.

    For flesh step crossups, you can either do a ground chain into assist +flesh step like McPeanuts said or you can do air chain ending with j.HK into flesh step. The projectile with cross them up and you can confirm off of it.
    A couple good ones are:
    -HK, jump back, j.LK, j.HK (whiff), flesh step. Works everywhere vs everyone and the j.LK can be done as a burst bait as well. This can also be done from a cr.HP ground bounce.
    -Cilia slide, dash, LK, cr.MP, cr.HP, flesh step, j.MK(1), j.HK, flesh step.
    Really though, you're better off just using the Double vortex.

    For Filia cross over/under resets:
    -HP/cr.MP, IAD, j.LP/LK (use j.LK vs BB).
    -HP, j.HP, ADC, j.LK, delay, j.HK
    -Restand into IAD, j.LK, j.HK/j.HK, etc
    -c.MP, j.HP, ADC, j.LP, j.LK, dash under

    For converting off of j.LP just buffer j.HK.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
    MysteriousJ likes this.
  17. Pickles

    Pickles VT scene?

    Location:
    Vermont
    Steam:
    Pickles (/id/shamanlord)
    PSN:
    PS_Shamanlord (but I rarely use this for SG)
    Filia
    Double
    Unknown
    peanuts gave you good double advice, only gonna add a couple things:

    -personally i like the rejump j.lp j.mk barrel after stray j.hp more because i think its more consistent but thats just me.
    -a bit more specifically regarding monster: AFAIK c.hp slide otg sweep slide monster is the optimal HCH starter midscreen for double but I don't really know much about double CH combos I just see people do that a lot. slide into monster is safe on everyone except bella (USS/diamond drop) and BB (SSJ) so if you have bar its a useful tool to try to catch people out. barrel monster is also safe against almost everything so its a good mixup tool if you have the bar.

    filia however i can go into some more detail on

    crossovers: do j.hk idk anything else lmao
    crossunders: most common are otg c.lk s.hp IAD j.lp or j.lk then left/right, im gonna paste something i wrote to someone else a while ago about it

    regarding filia s.lp left/right that beats jab on the way down(edited)
    the majority of characters you can do otg c.lk s.mk s.hp IAD j.lp
    it SEEMS like on most characters if c.lk s.mk s.hp works then c.lk s.hp works as well if you want to save that undizzy for whatever reason but i didn't explicitly test it (i.e. if c.lk s.mk s.hp iad j.lp worked i moved on to the next char)
    anyway here are the exceptions
    squigly/val: you have to omit the s.mk otherwise its as usual
    big band: again nothing i've found can cross him under
    beowulf/double: restand with j.hk first then chain into s.hp and IAD j.lp
    the cats i haven't found anything yet, vs fortune every timing i use still gets beat by her stupid ass jab, and vs robo i haven't yet been able to dash under her without my s.lp going the wrong way so idk

    c.mp IAD j.lp j.lk also works on some chars to cross under them, c.mp sweep call assist works with some assists, it'll crossunder because you go underneath them with sweep but you can cancel the sweep with ringlet psych to make it same side

    to pick up off of j.lp in neutral i personally buffer j.mk and then you can confirm that into hairball into combo
     
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  18. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

    Location:
    NW OR / Boise ID
    Double
    Filia
    Eliza
    I'm so proud of myself right now ;u;

    Thanks for all the tips, guys! I'm getting pretty good with flesh-step crossunder, but I still have a lot of work to do on the rest.
     
    Pickles and mcpeanuts like this.
  19. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Hell yeah hate mail is the gooooooooooooooood shit that's some good shit right there right there right there if I do say so myself
     

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