I Think Fortune Needs Some Serious Changes

Discussion in 'Ms. Fortune' started by DARKNESSxEAGLE, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. DARKNESSxEAGLE

    DARKNESSxEAGLE Master of Disguise

    Location:
    Europe (UK)
    Steam:
    DixiE
    PSN:
    DARKNESSxEAGLE
    Filia
    Cerebella
    Ms. Fortune
    These are dangerous waters I'm sailing on here, but I'm getting quite annoyed with some of Fortune's features. Before someone derails the thread into "you're just salty over losing" it should be noted that I've played Fortune since I got the game nearly 2 years ago, and I may not be a complete expert but I've played her enough to be aware of ins and outs. She's definitely not as bad as in SDE anymore, but as soon as the head comes off (or is coming off) things start to get a bit ridiculous. Let me make this simple and just list what's wrong with her:
    1. Beheaded
    2. Huge bonus for removing the head with very little cost for doing so
    3. Head can make pretty much everything safe
    4. Head requires virtually no thought to use efficiently at an early intermediate level
    5. Hitting the head is incredibly risky for the opponent and doesn't carry a big enough bonus
    6. Spacing the head should be important but is not/Head follows screen/Slide has huge range which can be extended with OmNomNom
    Let me go through those in detail 1 by 1 with reasoning and my own visions on solutions to the problems. Obviously I don't expect anyone to agree with all of these, but that's why this thread exists.

    NUMBER 1 - BEHEADED

    For a move that gives the player the huge advantage of having the head out it sure is easy to get bonuses off of. If that video isn't enough for you then I encourage you to use Fortune for a couple of matches and use Beheaded as a reversal or even just dash up and throw one out. The only way to avoid and punish Beheaded is to jump or to perform a throw on reaction, otherwise you are going to be either under pressure or taking damage. Also look at that range! Geez man, dash forward a little and throw the head out to get a hit on Peacock or stick her in block, zoning Parasouls don't get ground bombs so for them it's even worse.

    I would say that beheaded doesn't really need any invulnerability at all, but I can imagine this wouldn't go down well with many people, so let's start with removing just the grab invulnerability. If you want grab invulnerability use your HK Fiber Upper. I think stagger is fine, but the hit invulnerability window either needs to be decreased, or the frame advantage on block needs to be removed; there's no reason that this move should favor you if they block it successfully. Possibly remove the ability to cancel into a super before the head is actually fully removed too. Seems like a drastic set of changes but this move should really not be as good as it is since you get the advantage of having the head off anyway.


    NUMBER 2 - PROS/CONS OF HEADLESSNESS

    As number 1 shows, removing the head is an exceptionally simple process with little cost; even if they do jump and punish it the head is still out and too far away for them to net the extra damage from. But anyway, let's go down the list of pros and cons of having the head out:

    Pros
    • Fullscreen pressure
    • Eternal blockstrings until they pushblock, even then pressure can still be kept on because OmNomNom blockstun is dumb
    • Stops several supers from hitting Fortune (Parasoul's bikes, Gregor, Swag Wagon)
    • Make most things safe
    • Extend combos
    • Absolute intimidation against anyone with average air mobility, especially since it follows the screen
    Cons
    • No HP moves
    • Can get hit
    • Big damage if both Fortune and the head are caught together
    So stopping the supers from hitting the Fortune seems more like a bug than an intentional feature to be honest, but either way it is pretty dumb. As for the other benefits I think they would be fine IF more cons were put in to balance things out. I think the first step to this would make the head take more damage, since hitting it in the first place is pretty disadvantageous anyway as it give Fortune time to get in, baiting her into getting hit by a DP isn't going to work very many times and anything else you do is punishable by the head which you have now stopped hitting in favor of attacking the body. If not increased damage to the head (because some people already get too salty when they're caught with the head in Death Crawl), then increased cooldown time on the head so that strings of more damaging attacks can be used on it without having to worry about getting hit by 5HP->OmNomNom.

    Other additions to the con list will be added throughout this post.


    NUMBER 3 - SAFETY
    The head's off, you're stuck blocking, they finish up with s.HP. "A free punish!" you think, and to avoid anything dangerous you go for a feisty s.LP only to find yourself with a searing pain in your leg. That's right, you've just been hit by OmNomNom, you wish you had blocked that. Next time around you do block it, but then you can't stop blocking, they've got you trapped in a simple loop of A->B->C->OmNomNom->Dash->A->B->C->OmNomNom->Dash, after a few iterations of this you decide it's time to pushblock, so you do so only to get hit by the unmoving head keeping you in block long enough for Fortune to close any distance you might have made. What do you do now? You can attempt another pushblock while the head's in its tiny cooldown at the risk of backdashing and getting hit or you can continue blocking and let the cycle repeat. If only you where Filia or Bella, then you could just mash out a super and thrive off of hitstop's benefits, too bad you were more interested in the sexy legs of Parasoul. That's it, the only hope now is Napalm Pillar. You use it as your pushblock animation finishes, but they've obviously seen this move many times before and blocked it effortlessly for a free punish.

    Obviously this story is tailored with exaggeration to suit my point, but that doesn't mean you should disregard everything there. Pretty much any normal Fortune has, as well as most of her specials (or all, if you include the times the head is nearby) can be made safe by just throwing out a slide or OmNomNom. What's worse is that the cooldown on a blocked OmNomNom (the second largest cooldown on the head, next to slide->OmNomNom's cooldown) is short enough that Fortune can s.LK->s.MK->c.HK->OmNomNom repeatedly, making your only option a pushblock, however this only gets rid of the body; the head is still nearby.

    My 2 alternatives that I would propose here are to increase cooldown on OmNomNom and Slide, or decrease blockstun on OmNomNom and Slide. To be honest though, I'd have a considerably smaller issue with the safety of the head if it weren't for all its other advantages, so this is a very low priority change in my eyes.


    NUMBER 4 - MINDLESS
    We've all used Filia at one point or another, we all know what it's like to mindlessly do stuff and succeed for it. Well, as soon as someone gets in the habit of accompanying everything they do with a slide, omnomnom, or both, playing as Fortune against other players of the same skill level suddenly becomes incredibly easy. No thought is required, just run up, use slide or omnomnom to get them in blockstun or punish whatever response they have to you dashing and then proceed with pressure or damage. The head's range at the moment is insane, you pretty much never have to worry about where it is unless you're against a zoner, even then it's only a boolean calculation through your head to determine which side of the screen the head needs to be on. My proposal for the way to fix this comes in part 6.


    NUMBER 5 - TAKING ADVANTAGE OF A DISADVANTAGE IS DISADVANTAGEOUSHitting the head is supposed to give the attacker and advantage. At least, I hope it was meant for that. Unfortunately, it doesn't quite do that. First off the only universally safe moves to use against the head are crouching light kicks. I believe Parasoul can use j.HP and there are probably other such alternatives for a few characters, but I don't believe that one of the potential solutions to dealing with a zoning Fortune should be as risky as it is. I would like to see the stun the head takes on hit increased, so that players can safely hit the head with more damaging moves without having to commit to a chain. On top of this, hitting the head gives Fortune the opportunity to get in, and when that happens there are few options for the opponent without having to worry about the head. Increasing hitstun on the head would mean they'd only have to focus on dealing with Fortune as she comes in from her most advantageous position, which I believe contributes to balance out the pros:cons ratio a significant chunk more.


    NUMBER 6 - HEAD SPACEThis is my absolute biggest gripe with the head. There is no need to position it in any particular way as it will always be able to contribute pressure or extend combos when outside of the corner. The screen dragging the head with it means there is never a time when the enemy can feel secure (unless they're Peacock and the head is on the opposite side of the screen). I imagine changing this wouldn't go down well at all though so instead of focusing on that, how about the range of the slides. KhaosMuffins has already said before when I've made this point that reducing the range of the slide would break combos, so my alternative would be to compensate for the lost range with the ability to make the head walk. Something like hold HP and move point in the direction you want the head to move. It could even be something like a passive version of calling back the head, so simply hold HP and the head will walk towards Fortune. This would mean you could call the head to a specific point while doing your air chain, settle for 5HP to keep cooldown low, use airsuper and then use the now shortened slide to continue your combo. This keeps combos the same length, but makes positioning the head more important and using it in general more fair.



    TL;DR
    Fortune 2cheap, please fix:
    • Increase Omnomnom cooldown
    • Increase stun when head is hit
    • Fix that thing where some supers get stopped by just hitting the head and not Fortune herself
    • Fix beheaded (see video)
    • Reduce slide range in exchange for some kind of walking ability that can be done while attacking with the body
     
    Pali and IknowReal like this.
  2. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    The only thing nerf she needs now imo is additional cool-down on the head if it's hit. MAYBE Be-headed on hit slides instead of staggers OR scales on hit to 50% if it doesn't already.

    She seems fine otherwise.
     
  3. DDB

    DDB Annie Train into Callie Station!

    Location:
    Oh god help me
    Steam:
    DDB of the Stars
    PSN:
    DiddyBound
    Ms. Fortune
    Beowulf
    Filia
    Couldn't you just jump the beheaded and punish it?
     
  4. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    This move is some bs and I didn't read any of this but I agree 100%
     
  5. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    Oh yeah I wanted to make a thread like this at some point
    I will probably add my own stuff later
     
  6. NCV

    NCV Community Person

    Steam:
    ncv
    Painwheel
    Parasoul
    Painwheel
    Think of the possibilities if people played as much as they complained
     
  7. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Yo
    If for whatever reason they made it so that the head couldn't get behind me from fullscreen I wouldn't complain

    I'm just sayinnn
     
  8. Swiftfox-Dash

    Swiftfox-Dash The one... the only

    Location:
    Texas
    PSN:
    TJgamer22
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    I agree with some points but for now I'll just say this. While I don't know if this has been affected in the newer versions, I am a very unhappy camper when I block a random super from Fortune and in my attempt to punish her the head hits me instead and I get full combo'd.
     
  9. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    I agree with beheaded (or at least I think that it shouldn't be +1 on block), more cooldown on a blocked Nom, and a slight cooldown period when the head is hit. I doubt Mike would give the head its own walk, though. Maybe, maybe not.
     
  10. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    EEEEHHHhhhhhhhhhh.........h.

    Yea beheaded is a bit bullshit but w/e. Those grab invuln frames aren't that bad.
     
  11. Baiko

    Baiko So much to learn all at once

    Steam:
    KonKossKang (Swim killer?)
    PSN:
    Kashground (2009-2012)
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Painwheel
    not too long ago i complained about the game lol.Then i took optimus prime's advice and just played it more.

    fortunes combos are cool and all, but she seems to be the weakest character.when she throws her head at you you have about 3 seconds to get towards her.if this fortune is trying to come towards you just troll whoever it is by grabbing and landing hits in all the wrong places.havent played much of furtune but it seems like her only ace in the hole is dismemberment.
     
  12. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Actually she is commonly held to be a really really strong character. I think you are the only one to think she is the weakest. Head pressure is strong. Also you are forgetting that she can throw her head from the air and be perfectly safe, not to mention that most of her head-on combos are extended by using head spike and extending into a sandwich combo. Then if they aren't ending with a super they can end with a knockdown and launch the head at you as a meaty attack that forces you to block. Go watch Khaos's new Fortune guide and you can see just how versatile she is.

    Trust me, you are wrong.
     
  13. Stuff

    Stuff Lore Master Lord of Lore

    Location:
    California
    Steam:
    Stuff | Stuff | Stuff | Stuff
    Robo Fortune
    Ms. Fortune
    Double
    If head can walk or follow fortune by pressing a button I'd be willing to sacrifice those advantages. But don't all puppet characters have their puppets as like a meat shield? (like they get in the way and you can hit them and stuff) Or like a second wall when active? Maybe lose the "head" hitboxes on headless? It probably won't change anything but if I'm losing stuff that would sound sorta nice I guess. Another head move would be neat but I dunno.

    You have good points though and that's just nice.
     
  14. Vladislav_Paizis

    Vladislav_Paizis On hiatus from SG

    Location:
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Steam:
    Vladislav_Paizis
    PSN:
    Vlad7779311
    Ms. Fortune
    Eliza
    Unknown
    I never played a Puppet Character before Fortune and I know that Carl and Eddie are more difficult, but can some BB and GG players confirm to me if the "puppet" can attack the enemy after a blocked super? I main Fortune and I still find that rather stupid, though I would be against rebalancing characters AGAIN for at least 6 months-1 year. Everyone complained that Wesker was cheap in UMvC3, but not anymore and that game didn't get as many updates as SG.

    Also, if Fortune is not difficult to learn and is powerful, then why are there so few Fortune players anyway compared to other characters? Didn't the last NEC tournament have a lot of Doubles and have like only 1-2 players who used Fortune in Top 8?
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
    Veritas likes this.
  15. Baiko

    Baiko So much to learn all at once

    Steam:
    KonKossKang (Swim killer?)
    PSN:
    Kashground (2009-2012)
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Painwheel
    she has good combos and can do alot of things with her head but she is one of the easiest to run after,even with squiggly.that volleyball tactic is hard to predict though, so whenever i see that shit's about to happen i'll just bring in peacock's knife or abuse cerebella's running assist then move in with painwheel with a basic combo that would probably take 1/6 of that bar off a solo cat.

    and after that i would try my hardest not to let that bastard put her head back on.keep those two away from each other after the other guy messes up and use your assist to hurt the head while you keep the body in a corner somewhere.
     
  16. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    You have no idea how fortune works...
     
  17. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Man I'm willing to give up a lot of stuff that headless Fortune has if it means we can get a rush punch super like Nirvana in Blazblue.

    You probably don't see a lot of Fortune players purely because a lot of people don't care for her or find her odd to play. I actually remember one person saying that they didn't like playing her because they weren't used to actually having mobility options. Also, character love > All else (and Double is Double).
     
  18. Vladislav_Paizis

    Vladislav_Paizis On hiatus from SG

    Location:
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Steam:
    Vladislav_Paizis
    PSN:
    Vlad7779311
    Ms. Fortune
    Eliza
    Unknown
    Okay. I suppose all those Wesker and Vergil players are diehard Resident Evil and Devil May Cry 3 fans and Sentinel is a very cool character with an interesting personality.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  19. RemiKz

    RemiKz Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Norcal
    Steam:
    remikz_
    PSN:
    RemiKz_
    Peacock
    Filia
    Cerebella
    No one plays fortune because it takes significantly less work/knowledge to do well with someone like Filia and throw in Double.

    I think you have a skewed understanding of how ms.fortune/the game works.
     
    blufang and DDB like this.
  20. Vladislav_Paizis

    Vladislav_Paizis On hiatus from SG

    Location:
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Steam:
    Vladislav_Paizis
    PSN:
    Vlad7779311
    Ms. Fortune
    Eliza
    Unknown
    Then why bother nerfing a character that barely anyone plays? If Fortune is dumb, then what are Filia and Double?
     
    blufang likes this.
  21. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Well, it's a bit different for this game since there are very few characters and everyone is viable.
    And this is more of a guess, but there isn't enough competition out there to make people say, "I need to be playing the top tier characters or else I'm getting nowhere." Again, not saying that's true, but a guess.

    Additionally, Fortune brings less to a team than other characters like Filia, Double, Cerebella, and the like.
     
  22. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    Although I do think Fortune is too strong, the only change I can full heartedly agree with would be something to do with her head remove attack. That thing is the best move in the game in my opinion. It simultaneously is an invincible reversal, is + ON BLOCK WHAT and is sort of like an install or mode change move at the same time, putting her at + frames into her pressure mode.

    That one move does wayyy too much, other than that I think she has received so many changes and they aren't really nerfing her that much. I think its her design really and you would have to change her core tools to really balance her. Hey, someone has to be the best character, let her be who she is.
     
  23. DARKNESSxEAGLE

    DARKNESSxEAGLE Master of Disguise

    Location:
    Europe (UK)
    Steam:
    DixiE
    PSN:
    DARKNESSxEAGLE
    Filia
    Cerebella
    Ms. Fortune
    This isn't here because I'm losing to Fortunes, this is here because I'm winning with Fortune while not thinking and I'm getting pretty tired of it. I've put my old team (Filia-Cerebella-Fortune, Filia and Fortune had been around since forever, Bella was newer) on hiatus because I don't feel like I've achieved anything when I win with that team.

    I do miss a lot from that team (useful alpha counter, more enjoyable mirror matches, good reversals, all muh resets) and would quite like it if I could use them without feeling like I'm cheapening out my opponent. I take matches from players significantly better than me because I can just mash IADs and instant overheads with Filia (with a little cerecopter to make life even easier) and just stand back, jump around and slide the head around until I get a hit with Fortune. Hardly my vision of fun.
     
  24. mcpeanuts

    mcpeanuts Anchor Peacock is the future

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Steam:
    may_contain_peanuts
    Double
    Big Band
    Peacock
    Oh man if you wanna feel like you're winning without thinking or putting in any effort, you should give Double a try.
     
    destruction_adv likes this.
  25. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    idk man I always feel like I have to put in a good amount of effort to win with double.

    Personally I stopped thinking Filia was amazing once air gregor lost hitstop. That's just me though.
     
  26. Evilweevle

    Evilweevle Of course i meant to do that!

    PSN:
    Mrfossy
    XBL:
    Mrfossy
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Squigly
    maybe when we see fortune completely tearing shit up left right and center then we can talk about what nerfs she "needs".

    the community isnt large/strong enough to be making those kinds of judgements really.
     
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  27. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Double is easy mode wins. I don't really know if there is anything wrong with that, she still has to play the game... But not much when she has meter. Still she's a lot better than the face roll activate cats for super Saiyan mode that she used to be.

    I still haven't played against anyone that made fortune seem op. I played against a fuckton of fortunes at evo (that means... Like 3) one of which knocked me out of the tournie, and none of them seemed anywhere near op...her footsies priority was/is shit. She used to have major damage... But that no longer seems to be the case.

    I could be wrong, but to me... Fortune has always been more of a turtle character. She just movement turtles via double jump and that amazing backdash till she sees something she likes and then she goes in... Or she fibers through opponents that lose patience and force the attack.


    Having said that... I've never played against a really good head off fortune. That may be a totally different kitty... And I play painwheel as well and I don't think the fortune matchup favors fortune as much as painwheels bad matchups... Everyone else tends to out maneuver AND out priority painwheel.. But fortune only seems to out maneuver her... Painwheels armor is very effective in the matchup.


    So idk about nerfing fortune... Though fullscreen lvl2 sing into unblockable sbo is the new shit that chaps my hide... But that could be lag or whatever.


    Imho, more and more of the characters are being fleshed out and realized for what they are... So who's to say whether fortune is op or not... Or even if an unblockable fullscreen lvl2 sing into sbo from squigly is either...

    Unfortunately, I think kens assesment of the situations warranted. Let the game marinate for at least a year and let us sink our teeth into it before we think of making any serious changes.

    I say unfortunately because I would have MUCH prefferred it be mde that we were sitting on... But oh well.
     
    blufang likes this.
  28. View619

    View619 Well-Known Member

    Steam:
    ViewThePhenom
    Painwheel
    Peacock
    Cerebella
    No, you don't understand the game yet. Play more then come back, Fortune is actually the strongest character in the game, or at least still top 3. In fact, KhaosMuffin has a Fortune guide that you need to watch.

    Show Spoiler




    She's the only puppet character I've seen who doesn't really need to protect her puppet. The head isn't a projectile to be used while the body is across screen doing nothing, the body should be covering the head; hitting the head while it's on cool down shouldn't remove the cool down. If nothing else, it shouldn't add or subtract from it.

    ALSO, I don't think threads like these should be in character specific section, this is more General SG discussion (not even gameplay imo).

    @DARKNESSxEAGLE
    If you think you're winning too easily, play better players. If they're "seriously better than you", then they would adapt and win. If all it takes is IAD all day and jumping around while the head does the work to win, they aren't very good (imo).
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013
  29. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    ok this is some bs right here can we talk about this.

    I cry about this everyday rip mde ;__;)7
     
  30. ashxu

    ashxu its time to ape

    Location:
    down under
    Steam:
    ashzu
    Valentine
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Maybe not but it's certainly better than your utterly pointless and daresay shitpost. Fortune being too strong isn't exactly unheard of, if you have any reasoning behind why you think the OP is wrong then I'd gladly hear it.
     
  31. Baiko

    Baiko So much to learn all at once

    Steam:
    KonKossKang (Swim killer?)
    PSN:
    Kashground (2009-2012)
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Painwheel
    I'm not gettin most of this slang but the only problem i honestly see with fortune right now is when you hit her head it feels like chip damage instead of actual damage like when you hit her body.maybe ( suggestion 1-2 for mike and 3-6 for the rest)

    Suggestion 1:make it so that when her head gets hit with a 2hit ground combo it goes "oh shit" or something then her eyes roll to the back of her head for 2 seconds and for those 4 seconds she can't pick the head back up.
    Suggestion 2:make the damage higher for when fortune hits herself by accident.
    Suggestion 3:abuse this and put the fortune user in the corner with the detached head for double the chip damage.
    Suggestion 4:Deal with it and learn the game more (mahvel players say this a lot)
    Suggestion 5:beat a lot of morrigan players who use the clone super too much
    Suggestion 6:eh...not sure what else to say i mean mike made it so that she has a different moveset.
     
  32. dekillsage

    dekillsage Gloomy EVO Champ 2014

    Beowulf
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Launch the head

    It's fun

    Unless you play cerebella you stand no chance
     
  33. Dagwood

    Dagwood Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Steam:
    Dagwood
    PSN:
    crond1zzle
    Parasoul
    Cerebella
    Double
    Theres a lot more cons than that. Otherwise no one would play head-on.
    Headless, she has worse combos, worse resets, worse mixups, hard time converting off assists, has to use meter for most conversions unless the head is in the perfect spot at the time... Loses her best air normal
     
  34. Vladislav_Paizis

    Vladislav_Paizis On hiatus from SG

    Location:
    Tallinn, Estonia
    Steam:
    Vladislav_Paizis
    PSN:
    Vlad7779311
    Ms. Fortune
    Eliza
    Unknown
    And don't forget the crappy IAD in Headless mode. I was incredibly salty about that change when I first started playing MDE. She still has J.LK and J.HK when headless though and you can even do a J.LK, J.MK, El Gato combo like in SDE.
     
  35. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Ok so I'm bored, lets go down the list and explain why you have bad thoughts.

    1: 4 seconds of no head calling? Do you know how irrelevant that is? You assume that you figured out fortune players and that after they face you they'll realize that they can't handle you headless in the neutral game (quite the opposite), they will never call the head back like that in neutral EVER. And hitting the head already puts it in a small amount of hit stun. Adding a 2 second stun would be absurd, the most people are asking for is to have cooldowns not reset when you hit the head.

    2: Also irrelevant because fortune can hold hp and never hit herself, also hitting your head is a huge part of her headless game so that's out of the question. This idea is both irrelevant and bad.

    3: I assume that you mean to say that people should attack her head while hitting her but honestly you are so bad at writing I'm not sure what this is.

    4: I would agree with you here but the underlying context is that what you think is gud is actually bad so the translation of this suggestion from YOUR post is "git bad".

    5: Morrigan is a projectile character with doom assist and is about zoning and chip damage. She has a fuking fly and fly cancel. Why are you even comparing them, apparently you know nothing about marvel or skullgirls.

    6: This is good advice to yourself. Stop talking.

    Please, please go away. You do not understand how to play a fighting game or how to learn from other people in general. Until you have more experience and more humility you are only making a fool of yourself here.
     
    Icky, DDB and Vladislav_Paizis like this.
  36. Baiko

    Baiko So much to learn all at once

    Steam:
    KonKossKang (Swim killer?)
    PSN:
    Kashground (2009-2012)
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Painwheel
    Well damn.hahaha.
    Even a casual has to attempt support : D
    5.not comparing the entire character, compared her properties of her clone and fortune's head.
    and compared to a morrigan fortune is not nearly as bad :/
    3.What i meant with this, is if you couldn't keep her away from her head at least have them both in a corner.
    6.probably true.
    Calm down im pretty sure you could kick my ass in real life, just making a few suggestions : D
     
  37. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    I'm kind of sad that this is already one of the more active threads in the Fortune forums; the other being a thread that's not even about Fortune, but about Double. ;-;

    Yeah it's really stupid that it's +1 on block, yet has both hit AND a bit of grab invulnerability. It has a 30f startup and can be jumped but still that's pretty dumb.
     
    Tomo009 and DDB like this.
  38. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    Oh please khaos, you knew this would happen. The best we can hope for is that this will sucessfully bait some players into looking at the sub-forum long enough to try and learn fortune.
     
    gllt, DDB and KhaosMuffins like this.
  39. Kioshen

    Kioshen New Member

    Steam:
    Kioshen
    PSN:
    Kioshen
    Parasoul
    Cerebella
    Well it worked for me. Yay ? I don't have much to contribute yet other than lol fortune can do all that ?
     
  40. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    This topic isn't so active but I had some ideas for proposed changes that I'd at least like to try out in the beta. Fortune's definitely "fairer" than she was in previous versions, but she still has some dumb stuff. Dumb stuff is fun but... eh. My personal main issue right now is that I can find very little reason to play head-on Fortune in basically every matchup. Head-on advantages are more damage for less meter and a better high/low game, not necessarily better mixups, though. Headless on the other hand has better neutral and all she loses is her sub-par HP normals and she becomes a bit more hungry for meter. Headless is just better overall. I'd like to see headless Fortune get a few tiny fixes and head-on a few tiny buffs.

    Anyways, for the actual changes I want to propose:
    - Make head roll not +1 on block (Make it 0 or -1?)
    Reasoning: I can KIND OF understand this since the reversal has a 30 frame startup so it's jumpable and is throwable after the first 16 frames, and because if you block it then Fortune and the head are together and if she gets hit then she's taking 150% damage. The problem is that even though she and the head are together, she has the frame advantage which, when coupled with a 5 frame jab, means that most likely she's going to get pressure from you blocking a reversal. Of course, you can reversal in return if you think she's pressing a button, but the fact that if the reversal is blocked then she's not at as great of a risk (and if you jump it then the head is going to be far away from the body) is kind of... yeah.

    - Longer recovery on Feral Edge so she cannot call the head as quickly.
    Reasoning: Her headless ground super is fine because you can pushblock her before the drill portion starts and blah blah blah, but that doesn't work so well against Feral Edge. You can punish the super with a grab and not have to worry about the head nomming you from behind, but that's not exactly a good reward for blocking a super. But I'm so-so on this.

    - Longer cooldown on a blocked Nom
    Reasoning: Honestly, with the latest beta change I guess this isn't really needed. The idea was to give people more time to move in towards Fortune if she decides to auto-pilot zoom > nom from fullscreen, but eh. (I still like this idea better over removing the special cancels from zoom. Zoom > nom kept opponents locked down longer, but the head cooldown was longer and opponents could pushblock Fortune on both hits.)

    - SLIGHT cooldown on the head when attacked (but not by projectiles)
    Reasoning: If the opponents starts wailing on the head, then currently Fortune can just sneeze the head out. The opponent should not be afraid to try and punish the head because the Fortune player decides that she doesn't have to protect her head. If projectiles sent the head into a cooldown period then Peacock would absolutely destroy Fortune, hence the mention above. Sneeze wouldn't be completely useless since you could still go for a sneeze before the opponent first lands a hit on the head.

    - Slightly longer recovery on head-on Furrserker Barrage
    Reasoning: Eh? I don't really care too much for this. It's -11 on block and PBGC'able but... I dunno.

    - Slightly longer recovery on Fiber Upper
    Reasoning: It's already been lengthened... twice now? But it's still a bit hard for some characters to punish it when blocking in the air. Some characters can air super to punish, while others can't do anything to punish it. However, no matter the height then the Fortune is at a disadvantage when the opponent lands, so I'm kinda "meh" on this proposed change.

    + Bigger (or disjointed) hitbox on j.HP (Or just anything to make it worth using)
    Reasoning: j.HP got a damage buff in MDE, but I still don't think that Fortune's head-on only moves are very useful. j.HP is a decently quick air move at 14 frames, but it has very little range and trades with a lot of air attacks due to Fortune's legs and hands both having hurtboxes sticking out. I hardly ever feel a reason to use j.HP when I just have j.LK, which is available both with the head on and off, is faster, reaches further down, and can easily combo into axekick on hit for a combo.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2014
    TrulyAmiracle, Lethalmind and Hilary like this.

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