Fortune matchup advice thread

Discussion in 'Ms. Fortune' started by ShadowCircus, Oct 15, 2013.

  1. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Was playing around in training mode (rare footage) and I found that you can combo Big Band from a ground throw midscreen with fiber upper. There's several options too.

    If you're tight enough you can hit him with fiber upper into an air chain starting with j.lk or into j.hp and axe kick and go from there.

    Or you can wiff fiber upper and tag him with a j.lk into j.hp or j.hk and combo from there. It's Big Band exclusive as far as I can tell so I figured this info should go here.
     
  2. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    That's pretty nice tech, depending on how consistently it can be done it would be nice to have a throw option as Ms. Fortune.
     
  3. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    It's really consistent. I could do it reliably in half an hour and on top of that, I didn't need to modify my bnb that much for a corner carry and reset.
     
  4. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    Anybody with anti painwheel or valentine ideas
     
  5. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    Did all the other fortune players disintegrate leaving me to wander through this thread alone? Also does anyone have anti painwheel or Valentine strategies? I have seen some people having problems with the peacock match and I usually use max range cr.lk as a poke and cross-up a.lp or a.hp to avoid grab or her reversals because they do not anti air well. But most of this matchup is reading your opponent whoever makes the most right predictions usually wins. I say this because fortune high mobility can help her avoid any possible pattern (that I have experienced) and once you get in peacock then has to struggle to create space without making herself vulnerable.
     
  6. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    Also my feelings for the Bella matchup: Bella/fortune

    Close or point blank:6/4 almost every single thing you do can be grabbed and the fear of getting grabbed makes you want to jump and retreat so you can easily get hit by cr.lk but your normal are still faster than hers.

    Close-mid range:5/5 Bella still has use of her grab super and some normals and specials like merry-go-rilla and cr.mp but not as threatening and you have strong buttons like st.mp and your cr.lk

    Midrange:4.5/5.5 or 4/6 this is where you start winning and is a good time to take your head off. You can use the head and poke her, get her to block, and apply pressure(which can be dangerous) or run away and and wait or a clean head confirm into combo(much safer). You can also use your mobility options and have time to react to Bella. Her tools from this range diminish to st.6hp lock and load and run-stop/run-head charge

    Far-mid range: hard 4/6 or 3/7 at this point Bella really starts to struggle. With head off you can slowly chip Bella with nom or sneeze(on block) and make it difficult for her to move freely while you run around. She can try to reflect the head(it is a projectile) or combo the head to knock down your health but the reflect can be reacted to and a careful approach can punish Bella(if you try to approach recklessly you may be met by a diamond dynamo, horns, lock and load or worse find out if diamonds are a girls best friend). Most of the time you will be doing head slide into nom or regular head into nom.

    Far range of full screen:2/8 Bella has no to few options from full screen(mainly because she is a grappler and needs to be close to play her game). When full screen away she has to play your game. Try to run-stop can be beaten by nom, dashing forward loses to nom or slide nom, lock and load loses to nom, using can lose to sneeze or if to close a.hk. Even if she does get in you can still use your jumps, air dash and fiber uppers to evade her and escape the situation forcing her to approach again. Just wait until you have a confirm, do a combo, and then keep running away until she gets frustrated and does risky thing to approach. YAY!

    @KhaosMuffins @Camail what do you think about this?
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2014
  7. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    Having three different ways to say "mid range" makes things confusing.
    Bella wins at close range unless Fortune has the head close by, Bella wins at mid range, Fortune wins at fullscreen but not nearly as much as she used to. Head cooldown change + removal of zoom > sneeze/nom makes closing the horizontal distance much easier for Bella now that attacking the head isn't as risky to do.
    Overall I think it's 6:4 in Fortune's favor. Headless is still nice against Bella and you still outmaneuver her, but you can't sit back and just run away from her all match anymore.
     
  8. Camail

    Camail Well-Known Member

    I actually found a weird range where fortune can jump back j.lk and kinda stuff a lot of bella's air aproach . It was awhile ago and it may have been luck but if this is a particular issue in neutral I could put more work into digure out how the a2a hame works. I was able to consistently counter hit the bella out of the air, dunno about the ground game.

    As for close range bella is as strong as a grappler is gonna get, fortune's jab helps but if you stay close for too long you are going to get hit.

    8:2 is such an extreme claim for any match up in this game. Also the bella player has options at fullscreen that aren't just attacks, chicken blocking, blocking/pushblocking the head, or keeping the head in hit stun. Bella wants to get in so your options as bella at full screen are tools to get in (or pushblocking to prevent a safe approach by the fortune). The match up was terrible because she had no way of closing the distance, but now she doesn't have to worry about resetting the cooldown or getting hit hy sneeze so the fortune player has to be in a closer position to defend the head.
     
  9. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    That j. lk tech sounds interesting. I know 8:2 sounds extreme but I only view full screen as that I would say that the matchup overall is 6:4.
     
  10. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    Bella is not a problem really, all you have to do is stay away from that midrange where her game happens, fortune definitely has the tools for that. either stay away or approach when they're punishing the head, then just jab until you get a hit (watch for dynamo tho).
     
  11. KhaosMuffins

    KhaosMuffins Wannabe Gatekeeper

    Location:
    Nashville, TN
    Steam:
    KhaosMuffins
    PSN:
    KhaosMuffins
    Ms. Fortune
    Unknown
    Unknown
    I suggest that you guys play matches with Uzu, TJ Gamer, and Dekillsage for Bella knowledge, and then TJ Gamer and Worldjem for Peacock knowledge. (Read: They all give me trouble, they play their character(s) better than anyone else, and I need help)
     
  12. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    @KhaosMuffins

    I was gonna look to you for help on how to fight those guys.

    side note:
    If we're talking ranges why don't we do it the old SF way with range 1-4? Range 1 is in your face. Range 2 is max poke range. Range 3 is outside poke range to about 3/4 screen, that point where you can dash jump and be in somebody's face. Range 4 is full screen.
     
  13. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    anybody got an update on the peacock matchup
     
  14. FuLLBLeeD

    FuLLBLeeD KC Skullgirls

    Location:
    Kansas City, Missouri
    Steam:
    fullbleed
    PSN:
    nFuLLBLeeD
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Headless used to be the way to go against Peacock but I really don't know if that's the case anymore.
     
  15. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    ok did a frustrating set with @Beamsprouts

    i say stay head on. you literally got all the tools needed to combat peacock. jhp. and lets get only ONE Chip because you have your head on your shoulders. as opposed to chip to body and chip to head. plus its easier to get in if you know the patterns and do fiber.
     
  16. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Since I don't play headless, I'll only speak from the perspective of a Peacock player. Taking the head off is only a liability for most Fortune players. With all the extra cool down on hits and the inability to cancel into nom on block, the head doesn't add very much pressure to justify all the extra damage it takes. I've even developed new bomb patterns that allow me time to launch the head and then keep chucking stuff at Fortune. Since Fortune can't move the head while blocking, the extra 15 frames pretty much gives Peacock a lifetime to do whatever she wants.
     
  17. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    that's exactly i don't deploy head.
     
  18. Beamsprouts

    Beamsprouts NorCal's A V A T A R

    Steam:
    RK Beamsprouts
    PSN:
    Beamsprouts
    XBL:
    Freeze Lancer
    Peacock
    Filia
    Big Band
    You're just as frustrating lol. Heavy rushdown team UGH. Miss Fortune and Fukua hop over brass like it's NOTHIN ;___;
     
  19. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    ima fight you again. i want to destroy your cock Keepo
     
    Beamsprouts likes this.
  20. Dhoppler

    Dhoppler Forsaken by grains. Hated by the food industry.

    Location:
    KCK
    Steam:
    dhoppler
    PSN:
    dhoppler
    XBL:
    stormin fiasco
    Peacock
    Ms. Fortune
    Big Band
    Painwheel is a problem I've been trying to solve lately. Now from experience and KhaosMuffin's write up, it's obvious that the end goal is to force/maneuver Painwheel onto the ground and keep her there. The only question is how?

    j.mp makes it so you don't want to run at her.
    j.hp makes it so you don't want to stay in front of her.
    j.hk makes it so you don't want to run under/past her.
    flight cancels make it hard or whiff punish her or even pressure her for whiffing moves.
    unfly makes it so she doesn't even have to commit to attacking you or dodging when you throw out a dp or use an anti air assist.

    She only has so many flight cancels in the air, so where do I want to be to force her to use those up and then move in for the kill?
     
  21. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    I use pillar so I stand outside her air poke range, threaten her will pillar, and use j.lk-j.mk-axe kick into combo her. The easier part of this matchup is you know where she is coming from(air with high priority) so you have to plan around that(which is still difficult).
     
  22. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    [​IMG]
     
    Cadenza likes this.
  23. Cadenza

    Cadenza Documentation Expert

    Steam:
    http://steamcommunity.com/id/moon_cadenza
    Parasoul
    Filia
    Double
    yeah with PW's buff you might as well counter pick.

    your normals are faster. but her normals outrange you AND keeps her hurtbox safe. now you know not to go headless.

    btw she only got two unflys. but she can land and begin all over again.

    the only thing i would do is j mk sparingly to disrupt j hk and then axe kick.

    now the thing is. once you get that one hit? air reset her low. thresher is just too much annoyance to even give her the chance.

    basically what i'm saying is wait....and wait....and wait. then you can do j mk or even air grab > adc j hp. from there you can keep her on the ground through various resets that are low to ground so no mashing will occur and you can keep her on the ground
     
  24. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    Also one of the riskiest things you can do is try to head throw while you are being pressured. If you land it you get a combo and momentum; but if you miss and she flies around it you can get hit by a counter hit combo while taking 150 percent damage. A painwheel also might try a mash-out Death crawl with can be devastating and does a ton of damage plus chip.
     
  25. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    Has anyone have any counter pokes for valentine? It seems so easy to win once she is pressured. Until she calls double and starts running mix ups. I feel that head on is the way to go because her j.hp bodies your j.hk.
     
  26. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    it's safe on block dude, it's kinda the best reversal in the game.
     
  27. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    Yeah it's plus 1 I believe, but if it is baited by painwheel you take a ton of damage
     
  28. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    but doing it on PW is stupid since shes always above you, mash fiber instead.
     
  29. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    That's the point of me stating that it is risky against painwheel and should be rarely used.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2014
  30. CaioLugon

    CaioLugon It's an alpaca Gameplay Mod

    Location:
    Brazil
    Steam:
    CaioLugon
    PSN:
    O3366-2020O
    Ms. Fortune
    Cerebella
    Big Band
    but its not that "risky", it's just bad. you can still do it since it will still hit PW flying in your face (iirc), but you REALLY dont wanna go headless against PW
     
  31. Spencer

    Spencer Painwheel

    Location:
    Wyoming
    Steam:
    qspec
    Painwheel
    Squigly
    This is from my experience playing as PW vs MF.

    I think the MU is 5-5 as opposed to Khaos who thinks it is 4-6 (in favor of PW). I actually think some of it is a lack of exposure (way more MFs than PWs which means we know your tech/ranges/shenangians better than you know ours).

    As has been mentioned, don't go headless. I've had plenty of matches go against me only to catch MF and her head together for an easy win.

    I don't think that PW wins the air as much as people say. FU into air dash is tough to deal when PW is flying. She has only one air hitbox that hits above her (j.hp) and almost nothing that hits in front of her (arguably j.hk). Everything else angles downward (j.lp/j.lk/j.mk/j.hk) or causes her to fall to the ground like a bag of rocks (j.mp). On top of that, she cannot confirm if you are high enough above her (general confirm is j.mp x fly > j.mk x fly > j.mk > combo) as her j.mk hitbox is angled pretty nicely downward. Not to mention that she won't be hitting you with j.mp anyway if you both start in the air (her most reliable use of j.mp vs air is from a jump not fly). PWs ironic weakness is she can't pressure air-to-air as well as a lot of the cast (or as well as you would think given that she can freaking fly). She is an air-to-ground missile (though definitely watch air throws which is a go-to for a lot of PWs).

    The easiest way to view the MU is to understand that PW wants to be right on top of you. Literally, she wants to be hovering right on top of you and she wants to stay there. If she gets there, you're in trouble. That said, view the imaginary line drawn by an hk.Fiber as a the maginot line and you've got the advantage until PW crosses it. Your Fibers can keep her from flying straight in. Your Fiber into air dash can mix it up a bit, and when she starts to predict fiber, run right under her with your fast as hell dash (watch for a Thresher) and start it up again. If you get the momentum, move in and stay in. PW has no really great answers for pressure once she gets locked down and at that point, it is your match to lose.

    If anyone wants to practice it, I play a decent solo PW and would be glad to help out (I'm trying to learn Fortune myself, so it would be nice to see some shit). In any case, it can be a super fun MU, and I hope this helps.
     
  32. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    As one of a few resident painwheel gurus... (And the only person on these forums that plays both pw and fortune besides taluda) imho the pw/fortune matchup is even or pw favor.

    But there is one or 2 things that you fortunes could be doing to make your job against pw easier:

    Dash j.lk


    Then chain into j.hp for an armor breaker, or cancel into airdash j.lk if pw is spaced to far.


    The only thing pw has to really deal with this is space so that fortune is out of its range. Or early jump back with j.mp (which means shes wiffing it and getting closer to the corner) or very early armor charge so that the chain isnt fast enough to break before armor goes into active frames... Or air super.


    Seems like alot of options....but they are all relatively unsafe and require reads or just require pw to corner herself.

    If you are being out zoned by j.mp, then dash towards pw and fiber that shit. The only real recourse pw has here is to space out the fiber (see a pattern here?) or unfly into the fiber which requires a sick read.

    It isnt as easy done as said, but fortune has options,painwheel for instance hates dealing with dash jump offense cause all her attacks are slow and dont hit where dash jump priority usually is.
     
  33. Temple NUT!

    Temple NUT! Let me know when the fight starts!

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    PSN:
    Tamestorm2647
    Ms. Fortune
    Parasoul
    I don't think anyone was saying that fortune/painwheel is extremely bad for fortune. But I believe that painwheel still wins it. In it's simplest form I see fortune trying to force a character on the ground that flies in areas that her normals don't hit. Sure you can fiber upper, but you are taking a risk to anti-air a character that has a strong anti ground game(j.MP, j.MK,j.HK). Because you have to use reversals to try and stop painwheels basic gameplan is one example of how Fortune loses.
     

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