Blocking Resets: Just Luck?

Discussion in 'Gameplay General' started by MysteriousJ, Oct 29, 2013.

  1. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

    Location:
    NW OR / Boise ID
    Double
    Filia
    Eliza
    I'm getting a bit annoyed with skullgirls lately. It feels like there aren't mind games when it comes to resets, just guessing games. If I block low, I may get grabbed. If I mash grab, I may get reset with a low hit. It seems like mashing super is the best option, but unless I'm mashing it very fast, it usually doesn't even come out right when the reset happens. Mashing buttons is also not at all fun to do.

    All I see this as is a guessing game. What can I do to play more "smart" and avoid mashing?
     
  2. IsaVulpes

    IsaVulpes Just Throw

    Location:
    Trinidad && Tobago
    Ms. Fortune
    Filia
    Double
    #1 Read your opponent. If he airthrew you last time, it's likely he's going to go for an airthrow bait this time.
    #2 Learn your opponent's resets. A lot of stuff that a lot of people do is completely retarded and doesn't work.
    - Eg vs Parasoul [c.HP > j.LP j.LK j.MP] into crossunder, you can just do a falling j.LP and get a full combo (or if you don't want that, Doublejump/Airdash away).
    #3 Delayblocking multiple Directions and Late Techs work, but this is *HARD*
    - Basically at a standard reset point, hold downback for a few frames, then back+LPLK - if they went low, you block it; if they tried to throw, you tech it (since the tech window is rather big)

    But yeah, learning how to mash proper is easier and more effective than any of these.
     
  3. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua

    They are mostly guesses, but those guesses are reads as well. For instance, you know your opponent wont be going for a reset most of the time if they can flatout kill you. Also, if they CANT, then you can be sure that there is a 95% chance they will go for a reset. If they use a throw starter on you, then it will usually "end" in a reset.

    One thing i do that i think everyone should do if they dont already is when i get hit by a burst bait for mashing, once i see the same setup i dont tech or mash anything.... Makes sense, but i purposefully leave myself open to things like airthrows and the like just to see if their reset has actuall fangs or if its just a gimmicky one off burst bait.

    If your opponent has a bnb reset point then they are just letting you know where you should be mashing reversal. They will have to develop a workable burst bait, or just a classic standard bait, to stop you from mashing.


    Some resets and reset point do seem quite unfair, but the flipside is that the situations that are unfair are relatively easy to put into ones own game and so it becomes a "dont get hit" kinda game and you realize that you could very well die from getting hit by a hitconfirm.

    When you watch duck play i think you will see him not getting hit most of the time... Or not getting hit enough by the right things. Not getting hit is the first line of defense in sg and all fighting games.

    So tldr:

    If your opponent has predictable reset spots where he does low/throw or high/low/throw etc etc etc... Just mash reversal for him being predictable. Your mash, depending on your super will beat out most of the opponents options. Your opponent will either be forced to guess correctly or use a burst bait. Most people dont have good burst baits that coincide with their mixups, which makes their burst baits wack... but when an opponent does have one... Defense can become basically nigh impossible.

    Also, going for an unsuccessful burst bait is a clear win for the defender since he almost always escapes pressure for the failed bait.

    Second tldr:

    As long as you have a super/mashable invincible move that meets the occasion, all resets against you could be 50/50 instead of 1 in 5 like they feel.

    Reversal will beat everything except burst bait, burst bait loses to no reversal (no buttons)

    So if all else fails start to mash supers or grab techs, just make sure to be smart about it and not to do it constantly.... That alone will make you much more successful at defending against them once you know where your opponents resets are.
     
    Kat likes this.
  4. obregon

    obregon Active Member

    Another thing that can be improved is knowing the stakes of each reset. If a guy has a two way reset and you know that only one way is going to be able to kill your character with the bar the guy has, that changes the stakes. Or knowing the difference in stage position, e.g. knowing where Cerebella can OTG after a diamond dynamo changes her command throw reset game.
     
  5. blufang

    blufang Ink does a body good

    Steam:
    fangore
    Squigly
    Big Band
    Eliza
    This thread is discouraging to read.
     
    Squire Grooktook and wiredgod like this.
  6. destruction_adv

    destruction_adv Yare Yare Daze

    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    There actually is one other thing they could do other than a burst bait to make you stop mashing reversal supers, and that is to just do nothing and block the reversal super. As long as they don't have the meter to DHC, they're usually unsafe and just get 'punished" (Can use that word here?), though it depends a bit on what super we're talking about. I'm not sure if this works for me because the person I normally play against just refuses to catch on though. Since I can pretty reliably "bait" (again, does that word work here?) my his supers out no matter what, and the Fillia burst bait I use almost always works.

    So yeah, this could be an actual, viable option, or it could just be I've gotten used to using it because my friend won't stop mashing no matter what. I don't really know, though I do like to use it cause they lose a meter that way.
     
  7. DARKNESSxEAGLE

    DARKNESSxEAGLE Master of Disguise

    Location:
    Europe (UK)
    Steam:
    DixiE
    PSN:
    DARKNESSxEAGLE
    Filia
    Cerebella
    Ms. Fortune
    Blocking does work wonders; upon landing from an air combo, my Bella reset options are Command Grab, Kanchou, couple of hits -cancel> Kanchou, Pummel Horse (when they catch onto the Kanchou magic), couple of hits -whiffed Devil Horns> Ultimate Showstopper, chase up opponent's back jump with Excellebella or block. 6 out of 7 of those can be countered by someone mashing super so usually I test with a burst bait to see if I'm against someone who mashes supers while getting comboed or when they see a reset coming (my point is Filia, who has a more reliable burst bait than my Bella one and it can be swapped with an air-grab reset if necessary) and if they do mash super, which is something they'll do more often than not if they do it at all, I just go with the blocking option, and once (sadly more like if) they learn their lesson I can just switch back to resets.

    As for what you can do against those, well, more often than not just chicken blocking away will let you escape and dropping an assist as you leave can give you the opportunity to punish. My Filia resets are all either burst baits or grabs (interchangeable at the same stage in the combo), the same goes for Fortune, but when I do my Burst Bait reset I can't use it again straight away (use up my OTG/airball dash cancel in stage 1-2), while when I use my grab I have to either pull of my Burst Bait early or go for another grab, so more often than not I'll be using air grabs. That's just against me though.

    I've played against a Valentine that had a cross-up into mix-up reset but once you saw the cross-up part coming you could just dash away and get a free punish or at least alleviate pressure from you and put some on them instead.

    I guess at the end of the day it comes down to who you're playing against, what their character is and what resets they use, once you get familiar with that it'll become less about guessing and more about predicting.
     
  8. wiredgod

    wiredgod Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    PSN:
    wiredgod
    Peacock
    Filia
    Double
    If it was really just a guessing game the same people wouldn't win continuously. You're missing the point of fighters. It's 1) Hand eye coordination, 2) knowing your options and their options in each situation, 3) making the proper read/decision in each of those situations. You need more time playing.
     
  9. destruction_adv

    destruction_adv Yare Yare Daze

    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    I was talking to a friend over skype about this a few minutes ago, and I heard something that I didn't even think of before apparently some people (or maybe just him) are so scared to have guessed wrong they never guess at all. If they don't have a super to use to escape the reset, a few people won't even try to block at all or will just hold down back without even trying another option. Sometimes I hear the excuse "I'm bad at guessing.", but guessing isn't something that you can be good or bad at, just right or wrong. I suppose what I'm saying is that for some, they need to start guessing at all. Once they get the confidence to try it, hopefully they'll eventually learn how to make educated guesses (aka Reads)
     
  10. Hilary

    Hilary Well-Known Member


    :(
     
    Clawsome Bombs likes this.
  11. Clawsome Bombs

    Clawsome Bombs H E I S T B O Y S before GTAV lol

    Steam:
    ClawsomeBombs
    PSN:
    Noraas
    Eliza
    Squigly
    Ms. Fortune
    Reads are important.

    The End.
     
  12. wiredgod

    wiredgod Member

    Location:
    Chicago
    PSN:
    wiredgod
    Peacock
    Filia
    Double
    Having a mechanic that lets people defend against all situations would destroy any multiplayer game I can think of.
     
    Jason likes this.
  13. Dagwood

    Dagwood Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Steam:
    Dagwood
    PSN:
    crond1zzle
    Parasoul
    Cerebella
    Double
    -Dont get hit
    -Mash super
    -Have a safe DHC
     
    keninblack likes this.
  14. keninblack

    keninblack Lit Events Mod

    Location:
    Summit, NJ
    Parasoul
    Double
    Painwheel
    If all 3 of these options aren't working, THAN you worry about blocking. Once the opponent has you blocking thats when you lose.

    Blocking in this game sucks dick.
     
    wiredgod likes this.
  15. Dime

    Dime The power of BEAT EXTEND

    Painwheel
    Big Band
    Fukua
    Yes, it does, and its funny how many people would argue that point given the chance.

    @destruction_adv
    Yeah, i listed that as well, Its called baiting :)


    running around putting yourself into obvious positions where you can be attacked, only to block the attack or counter it with an assist call is generally called a defensive baiting style and its the kind of style used by duckator and ncv, as well as many/most higher level sg players that run updo on their teams. Watch inuchiyos games in top 8 at evo... He does it as well.
     
  16. destruction_adv

    destruction_adv Yare Yare Daze

    Valentine
    Filia
    Double
    Ah, I must have missed where you put it. I sometimes forget the proper terms for things too so maybe I saw it and it didn't register.
     
    Dime likes this.
  17. MysteriousJ

    MysteriousJ No.1 Skullgirls player in Idaho

    Location:
    NW OR / Boise ID
    Double
    Filia
    Eliza
    What's annoying me is mashing buttons for 60 hits for a 50% chance of preventing something that may not happen.

    One problem may be that I usually play in ranked. By the time I may learn my opponent's reset points, it's on to the next player. Compare that to street fighter, where a bad guess leads to a whole lot less time being combo'd, and you have at least two rounds to learn about your opponent. So I guess I'll try playing in lobbies for a while.

    Anyway, someone should make an Effective Mashing guide for the resource competition.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
  18. blufang

    blufang Ink does a body good

    Steam:
    fangore
    Squigly
    Big Band
    Eliza
    Guilty gear has a burst option, that allows u to break out of any combo at any time. However u can bait it, and use it offensively to build full tension.
     
  19. Tomo009

    Tomo009 Well-Known Member

    Eliza
    Robo Fortune
    Beowulf
    The problem is really in your head. You are reducing the mind games to guessing, which means you are probably losing the mind games more often than not. Resets in Skullgirls are a huge threat and can come at just about any time, so just the action of dragging a combo on is a mind game in itself.

    When playing against new opponents, Skullgirls is an incredibly high stakes game, that's not a bad thing. Treat it as first hit dead character when just learning a new player's playstyle. Come up with very DELIBERATE ways to test them, as Dime mentioned, see if they respond to the same situation differently if you set it up exactly the same twice, notice their habits at least at a high level. ie. Do they up back after air combos to avoid land throws allowing you to catch them not blocking? Do they mash at the end of strings allowing you to easily burst bait? etc.

    "Effective Mashing" is really just making a read, as is anything else. If you see a grounded reset coming up, do you think they will block/avoid a super or will it take them by surprise? Note: Remember character specifics, such as if you are playing Cerebella, you can pretty much Dynamo out of any grounded reset as it catches pretty much all evasive super baits and if you have a safe DHC out, it doesn't hurt much to try. Parasoul's level 3 works similarly, but it obviously expensive. It does allow pressure on block though.

    Burst absolutely does not defend all situations though. Plus it is a very, very finite resource. You can use an invincible move through GG burst. Also you are throwable basically immediately. I do get your point though, but Mike never wanted traditional bursts in SG.
     
  20. Jason

    Jason Not JasonD

    Squigly
    Big Band
    Cerebella
    Quick Match feels like a waste of time in general. It leads to bad habits like Vulpes was talking about with gimicky resets that don't actually work on people who've seen them before and it doesn't help you learn your matcups either.
     
    MysteriousJ likes this.

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